Open Borders

[Dennis N O'Brien]

Thanks Zondrae - Yes there actually is a solution:

Every time a boat arrives we fill it up with A.C.T. public servants
and send it back to Indonesia.
I know this sounds cruel but the Indonesians need to be taught a lesson.
I have a feeling there would be quite a bit of towing back done by their Navy.

Your idea of giving the Indonesians Christmas Island reminds me of my idea of
selling Tasmania to the Israelis to fix the Middle East problem.
It has a minor drawback of how to relocate Jerusalem to the Apple isle.

[Vic Jefferies]

I think the essential question to be answered is who controls our borders: the Australian Government or an assortment of criminal people smugglers? Obviously the government has lost control. The smugglers decide who will come, how many will come and when. Their decisions are not based on humanitarian grounds but rather how much money they (the smugglers) can make.
It is often reported that those arriving by boat have paid from eight to fifteen thousand dollars but it is seldom reported that the cheapest airfare from Indonesia to Darwin is about $500 so I wonder why you would take the risk and spend the money if you were a genuine refugee.
It is also seldom mentioned that for every one refugee "buying" their way into Australia another refugee who has waited patiently in a camp for years misses out.
Whether the people arriving by boat are refugees or not is beyond my knowledge but it is obvious that the people with money are disadvantaging those without and our government is powerless to prevent them jumping the queue.

[Dennis N O'Brien]

That's right Matt things must go through the appropriate channels.

Quite right Vic, a logical post.
In today's Australian:
"AUSTRALIA is resettling fewer displaced people from overseas camps than at any time since 1977, due to the surge in asylum-seekers arriving by boat."

Any sovereign nation naturally must retain the power to police its borders and determine who
enters the country, that is basically what the poem is about.
Australia is being seen as a soft touch because well...... it is.

[manfredvijars]

Asylum seekers are not granted refugee status because they do not have documents or are cheating a vulnerable system. The presumption that people who arrive in Australia seeking our protection are trying to cheat our system is offensive.

As a final indication of the value of this policy, it refers to section 49A of the Migration Act. There is no section 49A.

This policy lacks substance and needs to be seen for what it is - opportunistic and based on misinformation. It fuels an unfounded fear and ignores what asylum seeker policy should be based on - humanity.
(M. Fraser)

Just back from a weekend away ... The irony Oh, the irony with "Passports overboard" "Them clammy Reffos trying to get into our Country by throwing ALL their papers and passports overboard ...

Weren't these reffos accused of throwing their children overboard too ??

We had an influx of Vietnamese 'reffos' after that little war ended. They took to the boats to get out of that country.

Currently there are in excess of 3 million dispossessed Afghanis outside of Afghanistan mainly in Pakistan and Iran. Approximately 3% of these refugees apply to come to the West ... There are usually reasons for the ebb and flow of humanity across the Globe ...

Dealing with the facts rather than popular 'bull' may help in raising a solution ...

[Vic Jefferies]

Precisely Manfred, let us deal wit the facts,those with money buy their way into Australia via criminal people smugglers and those without sufficient money wait in the camps. That is the reality of the situation. For every one who arrives via the boats one in the camps is denied access.
If those who arrive here on the boats do not have passports or travel documents how do they travel so far to be allowed entrance to Malaysia or Indonesia? By my estimate those from Afghanistan and the the other middle eastern countries, if they travel overland, they have to traverse at least six countries which would obviously require some form of travel document but magically when they arrive here they have no papers. Similarly, no air line in the world will allow passengers to board without passports for international travel.
Anyone in any country in the world is entitled to approach any Australian embassy or consulate and make application for asylum however, you have to be able to prove your identity and your case to be considered and more tellingly then take your place in the queue.
The obvious difference between those who arrive here by air and then apply for refugee status and those on the boats is that we know and can identify those arriving by air because they must all have travel documents.

[manfredvijars]

That's the point Vic, with respect, no-one can be granted refugee status without being able to prove who they are and where they're from. People do have identifying documentation - not always a passport. No identifying documentation? then they get removed. Currently the removal rate is around 28%.

Although it's a popular notion, it is a blatant falsehood suggesting that the asylum seekers destroy their identifying documentation in the hope of gaining an easier access to Oz. It won't work! Our immigration officers are not stupid!

Demonising the asylum seekers is fallacious and clouds the real issue - People Smugglers!

[manfredvijars]

Thanks for all the comments and I've stopped scoring as those supporting the illegal breaching of our borders are clearly in front. (at least those who are commenting)

Sorry Dennis, I don't think you can infer that anyone here really supports illegal breaching of our borders any more than you would calously support drowning helpless men, women and children.

A number of issues are conveniently rolled into one by the LCD (thanks Marty) and in the process innocents are demonised, and rolled into one with the exploiters of Human misery ...

[r.magnay]

...well people, I am confused, if they are not illegally breaching our borders....why do they rely on "people smugglers" to get them in? surely it is illegal to smuggle anything over a controlled border!....am I missing something here?

[manfredvijars]

The people 'smugglers' certainly know International Law - far better than the average Aussie and far more than the LCDs. And here's the rub Ross, it's NOT illegal to seek asylum. That International convention (to which Australia is party to) overrides border protection.

Australia doesn't go to the many refugee camps to see who is in line, but the opportunists do. And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that there are no 'codes of conduct' guiding their sales pitch ....

Use Google and see just how many genuinely desperate people there are in the world and do the sums. These pricks are very well organised, they have the infrastructure and the capital. Probably a lot safer than guns or drugs (same infrastructure) ...

Maybe something we can sink our retirement funds into Ross? Just think, instead of Port Lincoln, the Riviera or Caribbean perhaps??? ...

But after all that, back to the original point (in the poem) ... do the boat people throw their identification papers overboard? With the same likely-hood as they would throw their children overboard.

[r.magnay]

'morning Manfred, I realise it is not illegal to seek refuge or asylum in Australia...nor should it be!
Since you have used Port Lincoln as an example, consider this hypothetical scenario....although much of it fact anyway....Alice Springs is no longer where I wish to be, as a white Australian it is no longer safe to go out at night alone. Our house must be secure both night and day and the risk of home invasion is very high, even in a secure house, it is not safe to leave my car unattended for fear it willl be vandalised and or burnt. My wife or daughter could be raped if they are not careful where they walk and that could involve weapons. I cannot advertise for a specific gender or race to employ unless that race is Australian Aborigine or Torres Sraight Islander.
The general hospital is shared between whites and blacks, but as a rule the blacks who contribute nothing financially to the system have at least equal but usually preferential access to all services. There are education, legal and health care facilities and services shared by both black and white but there are also those same services dedicated exclusively to the blacks and not accessable to whites.
The purchase of alcohol has a great number of restrictions placed on it not imposed anywhere else, solely to try and combat the problem of Aboriginal alcoholics who, apart from the self harm and cost to society, are also a great risk to their families and the general public.
I will seek refuge from this place so I employ someone to drive me to another place that is known to be safer and I will not have to be subjected to this persecution. The only person I can get has an old and unsafe Toyato ute but I want badly to get to Port Lincoln.
We cross the border, we are into SA, now the persecution is behind me. The first place we come to is the country of Marla, there is work available there for me, it won't pay as much as the job I have in Alice, but I will be safe and well fed, I won't have any of the good things I had in Alice but I will be safe, I am still inland by a long way so I won't be able to move around as feely as I would like, even though I am safe here, I still want to get to Port Lincoln, that is a country with the most millionaires per head of population anywhere in the world of Australia, that is where I want to be. I tell the person I hired to get me out of Alice, I wish to continue onwards to a better place. We stop at Coober Pedy, a much larger country than Marla, there is a better chance of getting work here too and some other opportunities to make a life as well, there are Aboriginies here but they are kept more under control, though there are still some threats similar to Alice and this is not where I want to be, even the fact that I will be much safer than in Alice I want to move on. We arrive in Port Augusta, this country is much bigger than the country of Coober Pedy, it has Aboriginies too but unlike Alice they are much more controlled here, there is still work available and shelter, I will be next to the sea instead of being in the desert but it is nothing like Port Lincoln, I want to carry on to Port Lincoln. We must travel through a number of small countries to get to Port Lincoln but I don't want to be in any of those so we keep going until at last we are in Port Lincoln! Wow, look at all those mansions, and most of them only have two or three people living in them! I want to live in one of them! Knock, knock, excuse me madam, I come from Alice Springs, things are very bad there, I fear for my life and that of my family, I risked my life in an old Toyota to travel the 1600Km to get here for refuge, I want to live in this mansion with you, I have no money so you will have to feed and clothe me, I am sure you understand my situation. No I don't have any identification, surely you would trust such an honest face as mine, I have never sold drugs, I am not a pedophile, I am not a terrorist or a rapist..............