Beyond Competitions or, Is that all there is?

[Mal McLean]

Form follows function was the point i was trying to make. Does it matter? We all, for the most part prefer the concrete variation and others can please themselves.

[manfredvijars]

Vic, mine says the same ... Poem 1 "a metrical composition", as do many other definitions (of poetry) available on the net.

There's nothing really to re-think; we write in metre AND rhyme.

So we might want to pass on Judith Wright's South of My Days because it is free verse. Do we also pass on Wilfred Owen's Dulce et Decorum because even though it is metre and rhyme, the substitutions and varied pace make that a metered poem that might to some ears sound like free verse.
Look it up on the net, you'll see what I mean.

Thank you Neville. Judith Wright's piece (South of my Days) is full of rich language and THAT is what makes it stand out. I have no problem with 'free' verse (I've even written some myself). But if we can't distinguish the difference between various forms of poetry what hope have we for our craft?

Breaking the rules only works if you know what the 'rules' are, otherwise all you're doing is trying to justify lazy writing!

Wilfred Owens, 'Dulce Et Decorum Est' is in Iambic Pentametre (metre AND rhyme) and hardly complex or irregular. Owens is on top of his craft. I've heard Vic perform and he's a great presenter. Owens' piece needs to be told according to the punctuation. And Vic, as a Vet, would perform that piece with authority!

I won't say too much about Ian Mudie's prosaic list - 'They'll Tell You About Me'.

[Neville Briggs]

As long as we don't think that the distinguishing line is a hard and fast line made by those who want to draw a small circle and make that the world of correctness.

[Vic Jefferies]

Thank you Manfred. This must be, "Be Kind To Vic Week!" People keep saying nice things about me...I am embarrassed.

Manfred I am a staunch defender of the faith and rhyme and metre all the way, but there is some free verse poetry that cannot be denied. They'll Tell You About Me is one such poem and South Of My Days is another.

[manfredvijars]

Goodonya Vic. There's merit in many forms and it's rich language that makes them shine. South Of My Days, has passages of rich language, however the other, "They'll Tell You About Me" to me, is merely a shopping list - and no real merit(to me). So I can't understand why anyone would make a fuss about a piece of lazy writing.

But please tell me what makes this piece shine to you, Vic?

[Stephen Whiteside]

The other poet who writes great verse that is sort of shambolic rhyming verse - but utterly brilliant - is Graham Jenkin.

Some info here:
http://www.bushverse.com/jenkin/jenkin.html

[Neville Briggs]

I think that in these discussions we seems to be confusing metre and rhythm. They are not the same thing.

Michelle Boisseau, ( A University Professor of English, better educated than me ) says "Poetic rhythm comes from blending the fixed ( metre ) and the flexible ( speech ) . It's neither precisely the te TUM te TUM te TUM of metre nor a reproduction of casual speech "

C.J. Dennis did a very "tight" rhythm using strict metre, Robert Frost sometimes did a very "loose " rhythm ( e.g. Out,Out - ) still using regular metre . Poets like Judith Wright in South of MY Days use a much looser rhythm where metre is minimised but not left out all together.
There are some so-called free verse poets who seem to have dispensed with metre altogether, I think that just won't work as poetry. And by the same token there are bush poets who maintain strict metre and lose the natural rhythm of speech to the extent that their verse becomes just wooden and that doesn't work as poetry either.

''Can you do it in the fine way you preach ?" you ask me. I'm glad you asked. No I can't, I'm a dumb doggerelist but still struggling to learn.

[Vic Jefferies]

Neville you make a lot of sense and I totally agree that absolute strict metre very often produces very wooden, unappealing and stilted work.

Manfred, They'll Tel You About Me is, for me at least, the quintessential Australian bush poem! It contains more references to Australian history and folk lore than any other poem I have yet read.
I would love to perform it in front of school children and have the opportunity of explaining the various references to our heritage.

In fact I am often asked to explain some lines by adults:The Ragged Thirteen, "arm in a hollow limb,"
"Poeppel's Peg" etc. often raise questions.

The poem obviously is not written with rhyme but there is a rhythm to it and I think it is a wonderful performance piece.

"Me, I'm the man who dug the Murray for Sturt to sail down,
I am the one who rode beside the Man from Snowy River,
And I'm Ned Kelly's surviving brother (or did I marry his sister?
I forget which) and it was my thumbnail that wrote that Clancy
Had gone a droving, and when wood was scarce I set the grass on fire
And ran with it three miles to boil my billy only to find
I'd left the tea and sugar back with my tucker bag,
And it was me, and only me, that shot through with the Padre's daughter,
Shot through with her on the original Bondi tram..."

[manfredvijars]

Goodonya Vic ... A list of references to Australiana no less than "I've Been Everywhere" is a list to Australian towns, only a bit more haphazard.

If you want a list that fires your passion for our Country, look no further than the Woodley/Newton epic, "I Am Australian / We Are Australian", thoughtfully structured, brilliantly executed, has rythme and even rhyme (mainly) Memorable, repeatable and stirs the passions ... Now THAT'S a list ...

As for, "They'll Tell You About Me"? Well, it's hardly memorable, repeatable and drops well short of stirring the passions, but how quaint, it doesn't rhyme ...

[Vic Jefferies]

No Manfred this poem is more than just a list of Australian events and places. The final verses:
"Me, yesterday I was a rumour,
today I am a legend,
tomorrow history.
If you 'd like to know more of me
inquire at the pub at Tennant Creek
or at any drover's camp
or shearing shed,
or shout any bloke in any bar a drink,
or yarn to any bloke asleep on any beach;
they'll tel you about me,
they'll tell you more than I know myself.
After all they are the ones who created me,
even though I am bigger than any of them now
-in fact, I'm all of them rolled into one.

For anyone to kill me he'd have to kill
every single Australian,
every single one of them,
every single one."

Now I don't know about you mate, but I reckon that is pure Australian poetry and a bit more than just a list.