What children are writing about

[David Campbell]

Yes, Heather, by all means let kids be kids, and we should celebrate the fact that they're getting things on paper in any form. And, having co-authored a book of verse for pre-schoolers, I agree that the very young love simple rhyming verse. It's quite possible that, by the time secondary school arrives, rhymes "get in the way" of expressing emotions (should that be a worry?), but, with regard to the "over-thinking", there are practical realities to be considered here. What’s our image? Our demographic has often been discussed on this site…we’re old. (I’m 70 next year and, believe me, 70 ain’t the new 30!) How many people under 30 are registered, having a go at Maureen’s homework, and posting poems for discussion?

Would a secondary student (for example), coming across this site, be tempted to contribute? We have a junior category of membership, but there’s no section here where young people can post their poems and have a peer-based discussion. And what would happen if somebody did post a poem like the majority of those evident in these competitions? Would they be politely told it wasn’t appropriate because it didn’t have metre and rhyme and wasn’t about Australia?

If a city-based teenager, preoccupied with self-image, peer pressure, family problems, puberty (and so on) fronts up to a bush poetry festival what does he/she see? A bunch of old people up on stage wearing Akubras. I mention the hats because at my first festival, 10 years ago, I was told that I couldn’t go on stage without a hat. My immediate thought, as a city-slicker, was: “What the hell is this all about?” What message does it send?

This goes back to the “bridge” idea I mentioned earlier….reaching out to young people, not only those in country towns. The Dorothea Mackellar Awards, mentioned earlier and accepting any form of poetry, claim to be “the largest and best known national poetry competition for students”. The Ipswich children’s competition, as might be expected, received a lot of entries from Queensland, but there were also entries from Victoria (83), WA, and NSW. Given that there were reportedly 1181 entries altogether, 354 of them adult, that makes 827 entries from children. Is there a bush poetry competition for children receiving anything like this number of entries from all over Australia? Where are the next generations of rhyming poets finding their feet?

David

[Stephen Whiteside]

My own feeling, David, is that the next generation will find their own feet. Perhaps I'm being too relaxed about it, but I look at this way. It's pretty hard to wipe anything out completely. Just when you think it's about to disappear, it bounces back. We see this in art constantly. A new movement comes along, and the old is swept away, but it never disappears completely. I imagine in the 1940s/50s/60s in Australia it looked like rhyming verse was dead, but then, Bang! along came the bush poetry revival.

There will always be plenty of rhyming verse to inspire the next generation of writers, if that is what they are looking for - and the internet makes it more accessible than ever. Just when we think it is dead and buried some young rhyming prodigy will come along, and turn the whole world on its ear.

Don't forget, too, the popularity of hip-hop and rap. My son writes a lot of rhyming verse, but he is not a bush poet. That is the last thing he is interested in. He has formed a hip-hop band, though, and he is absolutely loving it. I am very happy with that.

I take your point about the hats, David. I do wear an Akubra, but it is a rather unusual model. I was given it by my brother for my 21st. (I'm onto my third now.) At first I hated it, but I had another look, and rather liked it. A few years ago I thought perhaps it was time to drop the hat, but I felt naked without it, so I've decided to stick with it. Besides, it makes it very easy for people to find me in a crowd!

I take your point, Neville. Dennis was writing to entertain. It wasn't meant as serious literary criticism. He knew his audience well, too. No doubt free verse has itself changed a lot since those days, also. I just find it fascinating that as long ago as that the divide between 'rhyming' and 'free' had developed.

[David Campbell]

Wish I had your confidence, Stephen. The music side of things is thriving in terms of rhyme, but it'd be nice to see some of that interest crossing into the poetry area.

Still, on a more cheerful note, I've just read a review in today's Australian of the latest Clive James book: Poetry Notebook 2006-2014. James apparently gives the "tyros who have never learned to count a stress" a tongue-lashing. He complains about a "critical climate in which it is widely and honestly believed that a rhymed poem in regular stanzas must be inhibiting to a sense of expression that would otherwise flow more freely" and that "free verse is a requirement of liberty". A good message for our young poets, especially those who might find that rhymes "get in the way".

It's emphasised that James doesn't mind free verse, but (echoing a point made earlier in this thread by Neville and Marty), free verse writers should know their basic forms...there must be "bedrock beneath meaning even if the bedrock is no longer visible". James gets frustrated with the denigration of poetic technique (Hallelujah!) and the fact that free verse gets an open go, whereas regular forms "now have to justify themselves every time". Second that! He believes in accessibility: "the sayable, memorable living poem" that "lodges in the reader's head" and can be "got by heart". In other words, obscurity doesn't equal literary merit, just as accessibility doesn't mean lack of weight. "Words are the bewitching enemy, the beautiful seducer."

Sounds like a good book to put on the Christmas list!

Cheers
David

[Heather]

I'd like to see a show of hands here - who wrote rhyming poems (or any poems) when they were a child/teenager/young adult?

I didn't.

Heather

[Heather]

I've just read those winning Ipswich poems by the kids and was very impressed. As for no humour, I laughed out loud at two in the youngest age category. When I read "History Re-written", I was gob smacked. I wish I could write like that.

I still maintain that if kids are read to from when they are very little and learn to love reading,words and literature, the rest will follow - if, and when they are ready. I guess that puts it back on the parents, grandparents and teachers.

And just a thought - has anyone thought to ask the kids why they (apparently) don't write rhyming poetry?

[Bob Pacey]

I posted yesterday but it seems the big pond in not quite right yet.

Heather I wrote stuff when I was a juvenile ( just yesterday really ) but I did not consider it to be poetry.

Ditties to send up my mates and such but nothing like the morbid stuff kids seem to be writing now. a sign of the times perhaps.


I think we are bit in the Handrahan ( We Will All Be Ruined ) syndrome stage.

I can understand Zondraes confusion but it is just a matter of what we like.

I play around with stuff ( Don't be rude ) at times just to experiment but I know my limitations and my audiences when performing.

Don't get to stressed about the kids of today they are smart enough to sort it out for themselves all we can do is keep sticking it out there and like a fisherman hope we catch a few on occasions.

Off to do a WW1 memorial performance with the Chamber Music Society ? hope for me yet hey Nev.

Cheers Bob

[David Campbell]

Memory's a problem with your first question, Heather. The only concrete milestones I have are that I got 7½ out of 10 for poetry (must have written something!) in primary school in 1956 and my first published poem (free verse) appeared in a university magazine in 1964.

With regard to your second question, my impression is that rhyme and metre are seen as added complications, and if they can say what they want to say with free verse, why bother? Also, in line with what Clive James says, the style is commonly seen as inferior and old-fashioned...which seems at odds with the popularity of rap music.

How about some other views? Bob hopes we can catch a few on occasions, but what would it take to get just "a few" of these gifted young people contributing enthusiastically to this site and/or the magazine?

David

[warooa]

Just had this funny image of a teenager rocking up to a bush poetry do with no hat, so he has to borrow one before he gets up to do his poem. In typical teenage defiance he puts the Akubra on backwards

[Peely]

I'd like to see a show of hands here - who wrote rhyming poems (or any poems) when they were a child/teenager/young adult?

I didn't.

Heather

G'day Heather

I can certainly say that I wrote poems at all of those different stages and they were (for the most part) rhyming poems (occasionally I would throw in an unrhymed line just to satisfy my English teachers).

I can still remember one of my first ever Limericks that I wrote as an 11 year old.

I can remember winning my age group section in a poetry competition as a 13 year old.

After I was just a bit older than 16, I didn't write any poetry at all. I didn't have another going at writing a poem again until I was a university student.

Regards


John

[Heather]

I knew you would have John - and Maureen.