ABPA - Australian Bush Poets Association

The biggest problem facing the christian religion is the plethora of versions of the bible. Its origins are uncertain and its repeated translation and amendment over the centuries has made it a very unreliable reference book. The Islamic faith on the other hand, until very recently, prohibited the translation of the Koran and in fact it remained entirely unaltered from when it was first produced. It was written in ancient Arabic and those wishing to read it had to learn that language.
There were (probably still are) special Commonwealth funded schools in Australia to teach that ancient form of Arabic.
Hard to argue with a Muslim when he knows who wrote his holy book and that it has never been altered when we don't really know who wrote the books that make up our bible or even which version we base our thoughts on!

Vic

Interesting conversation here and worthy of thought. I have no religious persuasion either but was bought up in a god fearing family so to speak....to me the Bible has always been something that has had an element of truth in it and certainly has some excellent examples of how one should live but also has some examples of some not so nice behaviours. The old style of language in which it was originally written whilst hard to read and sometimes difficult to attach a meaning to nevertheless has a richness that we should IMO be trying to retain.

Since it is my belief that people back in the times when the Bible was written were for the main part illiterate and uneducated because their poverty did not allow them to be otherwise, I have always suspected that Bible stories would have been like bush yarns - passed along by word of mouth, subtly altered in each telling and eventually someone with the time and the inclination decided that they should be documented and thus they became the written word.

If that were the case how much of what one reads in the Bible could accurately be verified as truth, and how could one actually give credence to what is in fact a massive fairy tale, albeit with some truth interspersed in the mix? I doubt any of it would stand up in a court of law today.

Where did the word Bible come from anyway - where did that word originate - why not just book...maybe it stood for Bloody interesting but laughable eloquence

Cheers

Maureen

G'day all,

Now I do not hide the fact that I am a practicing Catholic. You can leave me here if you wish! I go to Mass regularly and try to live a good life. Note I say 'practicing' and 'try'. But I am not a thumping Bible basher. My intelligence tells me that Evolution is a scientific fact and that the stories in the Bible, specially the old testament, are folk tales passed along somewhat like 'Chinese Whispers.' There are some true elements in some of the stories. eg the great flood. - most cultures have a similar story in their folklore. - The fact that Jesus Christ was a real person is documented in ancient roman documents.

I know the Bible that we 'tikes' use was constructed by the Roman Catholic Church at the councel of Nicea hence the 'Nicean Creed.' At this point in history they chose the bits they wanted to include and the bits they tossed out. We know this from the writings contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Catholic Church has changed the Mass from Latin to whatever the local language is and in doing this has lost some of the 'glory' of the text. Currently there is about to be released in Australia a new Missel (the book used to celebrate various events, in particular Sunday Mass) to reinstate some of the old fashioned language. I have not seen it yet but it is due any day.

I have a St. James version on my book shelf and have used it as a source for quotations from time to time. I also have a Catholic version of the Bible which, I am sorry to say is the American version. (When I bought it as a newly wed there was no Australian version) As I said I await with baited breath, the new Missal, which will include the latest bible quotations in the readings used during Mass on Sundays.

However, if people everywhere would treat each other as they wish to be treated we would have a far better world to live in regardless what the basis of their religeon is.

The aforegoing is all very interesting.
Like Zondrae, I am a Tyke, or should I say, a half-bred Tyke, as the Daniel side of our family were the non-Catholics.
We didn't own a Bible but we did have a couple of books by Banjo Paterson, one by Henry Lawson, an Atlas and a couple of Australian history books. My brother and I each owned a pair of Rosary Beads and a prayer book, later advancing to a Sunday Missal.
In my early days at school we were taught the basics of our religion from a Catechism. Our teachers were the Sisters of St. Joseph, and what they said was 'Gospel', my oath it was, they'd never tell a lie!
We believed in the Bible even though we'd never read as much as a page from one.
As each of our oldest Catholic ancesters passed on, the family Bible was handed down to the next in line, until it came into the hands of my Mother.
The only thing I can remember reading in it was a list of the Gallagher (Mums mob) side of the family. A record of our births and death dates from as far back as 1848. I thought that was something to have and would have treasured it until this very day.
I suppose I was lucky enough to read that much, as Mum's younger sister 'borrowed' that book one day and we never saw it again.
Lawson mentioned a 'name rewritten there' in one of his poems, and I often think when remembering this poem that I would love to have continued writing names in our old book. My eldest, Michael, would have been the next keeper of the book!

Joe

I think Marty has raised a good talking point. The translators of the King James Bible whatever their intentions, most certainly had the intention of a polished work of literature that would speak eloquently and have a sort of ambience of authority and dignity befitting what they took to be divine revelation.

They didn't start in a vacuum, a lot of their style and characteristic turn of phrase came from a great tradition of literature which included Tyndale, Shakespeare and Milton.

If I am not wrong I think that the point Marty was looking at, is that we can learn from the heritage we have of fine literature and the way "word smiths" of the past were able to produce a work which had enormous impact on culture and thinking far beyond the mere relating of a message. If that's what Marty means I say hear hear.

As to the spiritual or theological implications of such a document, we'll get bogged down on that one, I fear. That's probably a discussion for another time and place.

I like Frank was Taught in my early years by the Sisters Of St Joseph, mind you I gave up going to church as soon as I left school.
I can still remember the Nuns explaining why the Mass was then said in Latin in those days. It was said that Latin was a dead language and as such it never changed which meant the Mass never changed either. Also like Frank I was taught with a catechism and eventually had the all various things that he had.

Terry

Yep,

I'm a 'Joey' girl too. Those Josephites did a great service to our country. Even if most of the children they taught no longer go to church, the morals they pounded into us has been the backbone of our nation. The discipline we were forced to adopt has stood us all well throughout our lives. Bless Mary (McKillop) of The Cross.

That poem 'Scotts of The Riverina' always makes me cry. It is a terrible thing when a parent disowns a child, whatever the reason.

Now I class myself as a cattletick ( catholic for short ) although like Neville I stopped going to church after my Mum passed away. She was a born again christian before the phrase was born.

Most families those days had a family bible and it is a cherished posssession of mine mainly because it has all of mums prayer cards ect still inside. How in hell 9 pardon the pun )I came to get it I will never know as most of the other gear was quickly snatched up by my older sisters.

I reckon I was the only kid who went to six o'clock mass at 6.45 am and back out by 7 am. Stopped going when a priest told me I had to give 10 percent of my wage to the church or I would go to hell.

Perhaps hell is the naughty Corner ?

Robert

Zondrae . . Scots of the Riverina a great piece of verse, put to song nicely by Lee Kernaghan some years back, a lamentable but harsh and real story, but with somewhat of a 'happy' ending

Face down with his bare arms folded he sank with his wild grey hair
Outspread o'er the family Bible and a name re-written there.

Marty

For all the lapsed Catholics,

you will be delighted to know they have abolished both Hell and Limbo. So there must be a lot of lost souls out there with nowhere to go.