ABPA - Australian Bush Poets Association

I read recently that W.B. Yeats was asked where he got his ideas from and he replied " From the rhymes "

I wasn't quite sure what he meant and then I thought that he probably meant that he did what I do from time to time. Sometimes I get stuck for a line and I put down a rhyming word at the end of the line and then the idea of what to say in the line comes to me, prompted by the last word in the line.

I was wondering if others do this. What do you think of this method ?

I agree in part. Sometimes as happened to me recently a line that rhymes will pop into my head and away I go writing a poem around that line. However I am fairly sure that my best poems have come from thinking of a story or subject first and then working out the meter and rhyme to suit.
In fact I am sure it is better to get the story and then the point you are trying to convey firmly in your mind and then fit the rhyme and meter around that idea.

Vic Jefferies

Neville, you and I and Yeats have something in common. It works for me often and if I can't find a rhyme to suit the story I change the rhyme and often the line.

Heather

G'day Neville...
Interesting approach. I assume when you say "stuck for a line" you are talking about getting stuck during the writing process, rather than stuck for a line as a basis for a poem? (Which is a different thing to getting an idea for a poem "from the rhymes".)

For myself, the idea for a poem usually developes from the prompting of something seen, read, heard or felt but also, sometimes, a seemingly random combination of words that come to mind will kick things off. But, as far as getting stuck for a line goes, I sometimes find it good to go back to the "flow chart". It depends on the theme of course, but most times there will be a beginning, a middle and an ending, all having their part to play in communicating the gist (love that word) of the poem. By reviewing the line in relation to the flow chart, I can sometimes find the right combination with appropriate rhyme. More often though, it will lead to changes to more than that line and, sometimes, changes to whole sections of the poem and even re-writing the piece in a different form.

Two quotations I try to always keep in mind...
Plato: "...rhythm and harmony (metre) are regulated by the words and not the words by them"
Coleridge: "...prose is words in the best order. Poetry is the best words in the best order"

Cheers, Will.

I have to agree with Vic, as in developing the story line and plot before I even think too much about the rhyming or rhyming scheme. This, I feel, is very important in performance poetry, as you follow the story as you created it. The rhyme then comes and that is when I find that you don't rhyme for the sake of rhyming but leave clever rhymes behind as clues to help deliver the story without getting lost. I sometimes find that if I strive too hard for a rhyme and turn to a rhyming dictionary in my hour of need, then I often find a great rhyme that leads me onto a different path and i get all abstract and the poem ends up in a different direction, although, mind you, it worked that way for the better in 'Shooting Swaggies'!!!! I also do the same with song writing.

Yep, I do that too Neville - a lot. I often start off with only a vague idea and end up going off on an entirely different track because of where the choice of a rhyming word might lead me.

I see what you mean Will. I was thinking about the process.
I think it is always interesting if we can get a peek into the way some great virtuoso worked and it is heartening to discover that they struggled with the same difficulties that we struggle with and often in the same way.

I'm sure you're right Keats and Vic, there are probably as many different approaches as there are styles and contents of poems.
I own two rhyming dictionaries and I still get stuck..often.

Good on you Heather, we three must be geniuses ( or is that genii )

Will, that's an interesting quote of Plato's , haven't heard that before. Although if I could be so presumptuous as to comment on Plato, I see that he does not mention rhyme, which I think does indeed have the effect of regulating the words. That's the restriction we have to work with in rhyming verse, isn't it ?
I love the quote of Coleridge, one of my all-time favourites. As Glenny would say, sooooooo true.
And congratulations on your HC in the Blackened Billy.



Leonie, I start every day with a vague idea and end up going off on an entirely different track.
And I ain't torkin 'bout poetry.


Good to see you back Leonie.