Homework WE 22/9/14 (Shelley) - The Man Who Got the Possum

[Maureen K Clifford]

Whatever rows your boat Shelley The only rule pertaining to prompts is that there are no rules - use one or use them all and have fun trying some different things from time to time. They are merely meant to get that writing muse into gear and perhaps make people think a bit outside of their comfort zone.

[Maureen K Clifford]

Maybe he just wasn't too fussed about being absolutely precise and let the lines flow as they came to him.

I reckon that would be right David - he sounds like a pretty laconic Aussie bloke and regardless of whether or not it is technically correct it appeals to the people 'who don't do poetry' and in my book that is what it is all about. Perhaps he had a similar mindset Lets face it just about every Aussie would know the opening lines.

Now if we can give Shelley's poem a bit of a plug here and there The Man who got the Possum might zoom up the poetry charts and go viral as well

[Neville Briggs]

Banjo Paterson's Man from Snowy River is an absolutely precise and consistent accentual metre verse.
Counting of syllables has nothing to do with it. It is most certainly NOT " all over the place "

If that poem would be rejected by the ABPA competition, then the ABPA competition requirements need to be fixed to reflect a true understanding of metric verse.

[Shelley Hansen]

Goodness me, it does seem that I've opened a can of worms with my observation of Banjo's metre!! Sorry about that - it was not my intention.

You're right David, I did "tweak" the syllable count for my parody - other than a couple of notable exceptions where doing so would have made it too different from the Snowy River line I was copying (e.g. "He sent the possum flying" and "And down there in the suburbs").

While we're on the subject, from what I've seen in the short time I've been competing, feedback from judges on the subject of poetic metre and syllable stress seems to be a very individual thing. David, you and I have already had discussions about my poem The Legend of Tiny Tim, which does have misplaced "stress syllables" in more than one place. I received quite negative comments on the matter from one judge. However as I'd already given the poem to Tiny Tim's owner, I didn't want multiple versions out there, so I decided to leave it "as is" and use it as a live performance poem - as I knew I could easily adjust my recitation to fix the stresses.

Then I decided to try it one more time in a written competition - where it promptly came second! The feedback from the two judges of this competition was interesting. One judge made no mention of misplaced syllable stress. The other one did - but here's the interesting bit - he mentioned questionable syllable placement in a few lines, but said that it was a very good poem to recite. That of course bears out your point - there is no sense of "misplacement" at all when one recites The Man From Snowy River. I've known it off by heart since my school days and as I said originally, it was only when I examined it closely (counting the syllables and noting the stress placement with a view to writing my parody) that I noticed the discrepancies. Fascinating!

I don't think I'll aspire to the privilege of being a judge - sounds like it's a bit akin to dancing in a minefield

And Maureen - flattered though I am - I don't see Possum heading for the greatness reserved for National Treasures! But we can always hope

Regards, Shelley

[Neville Briggs]

This is a workshop Shelley, I reckon your observations about metre are legitimate subjects here. No need to be abashed about that.

[Bob Pacey]

{ Go for the free verse then Bob, you won't have to worry about silly counting. }


Never made any mention about what I strive to write Neville ? only about how I thought Banjo wrote ?


Bob

[David Campbell]

Yep, "dancing in a minefield" sums it up beautifully, Shelley! Interesting to hear about those responses to "Tiny Tim".

Neville, the ABPA guidelines have traditionally just referred to "consistent metre", and judges (and poets) have usually taken this to mean accentual-syllabic metre, which is easily the most common metrical form in English poetry (perhaps excluding nursery rhymes). Against this standard, TMFSR is "all over the place". I have no problem with expanding the options to include syllabic metre and accentual metre, but everybody would have to be on board with that and understand what it meant.

Cheers
David

[Neville Briggs]

The ABPA standard is an arbitrary stipulation, only recently imposed. Therefore, I think comparison of this " standard " with Paterson's use of well established traditional form is invalid.

I have no problem with expanding the options to include syllabic metre and accentual metre, but everybody would have to be on board with that and understand what it meant.

Accentual metre is commonly accepted in the performance comps. and indeed in many bush poetry performances. Why there is a different " requirement " in written stuff is a deep mystery to me, it makes no logical sense; performance is the written spoken out, written is the performance written down. It's the same thing, the same standard of evaluation should apply.

[Neville Briggs]

Oh Bob, I thought you might be going to break out into something really cool.

[Maureen K Clifford]

I still struggle with all of the technicalities - win some - lose some - and have come to the conclusion that for the everyday bloke on the street they matter not a jot. They either like what they hear or they don't and in the interest of sharing poetry to the folks who 'don't do poetry' - liking what they hear is probably more important and will keep them coming back to have a bit of a nibble around the edges at least. If our Aussie history had been taught via the medium of poems like TMFSR we would probaly all have grasped it better and had it stick in our heads.