The A.B.P.A. needs to move ahead.

[Bob Pacey]

Manfred will tell you about how successful the recently held Australian Poetry Slam was and how involved the audience get in the scheme of things, I reckon something along the same lines would do wonders for Bush Poetry.


Cheers Bob

[Neville Briggs]

At the AGM of the ABPA at Tamworth last year, I tried to tell them the same thing as you have said here Bob, I got the impression that no-one was listening or interested.

[warooa]

I reckon the idea has a lot of merit, but it would have to be a concept that stands apart from the (already established) Australian Poetry Slam.
It would have to avoid being seen as a copy-cat "Dad's Army" version.
It would obviously be rhyming Bush Poetry so alienating that core following that the Poetry Slam has (of the free verse ranting monologue), not to mention the youth factor.
Would it upset some Bush Poetry traditionalists? Would it divide more than unite us?
I reckon it could be a great vehicle to promote bush poetry and drive its poplularity into the present via the "snappy" sound-bite sized entertainment arena of the now.
Looking at the fantastic efforts by some bush poets in the Slam arena ie. Bob, Greg North and I think Stephen and Zondrae have had a good crack there is no reason why it couldn't be a success. Just look at the popularity and entertainment of the 1 minute comps. We've definetly got the talent.

Marty

[Neville Briggs]

we are a niche within a niche , and that will remain the same til the end of time. We do not have broad appeal , those heydays are long gone , we are a bit of a curiosity

I think that's about right Marty.

[Peely]

Look at the demographic , mostly older people . We either try to attract a younger audience , which by the way way I don't believe we ever will ,or we focus on the demographic and exploit it.

When you think about the current demographic, that could be part of the problem too. Perhaps because many of the writers are also of the same demographic, the subjects that are being written on are not those that hold much appeal for a younger audience.

Using this forum to illustrate a point, the addition of the "Remember When" section was one that held little appeal to me. The subjects talked about were generally ones from an era well before my time - not subjects I could make a sensible comment on and for that matter if I was to post a "Remember When" of my own it would probably be something too recent in the memories of those much older anyway. Perhaps it has lost appeal to the older members too - it doesn't seem to get many posts these days.

Manfred will tell you about how successful the recently held Australian Poetry Slam was and how involved the audience get in the scheme of things, I reckon something along the same lines would do wonders for Bush Poetry.

Perhaps a shorter format competition would have some merit. When contemporary(modern) or traditional(classical) sections are contested you often have a big number of long, serious poems being performed which can have a wearying effect on audiences. You would still need to have performance in mind - much more entertaining than watching someone read off a piece of paper. Perhaps working to the two minute time limit of the slams and moving away from the impromptu format of the one-minute poem (to allow competitors to learn their poems for performance). It would be great to see how something like this might work.

[Stephen Whiteside]

I think there is scope in Australia to form a 'rhyming verse' association. This could be done with or without the ABPA. My guess is that it will very likely happen at some point.

There is a lot of interest in rhyming verse, especially amongst those writing for children, many of whom do not relate to the 'bush' particularly.

The ABPA could re-invent itself as the ARVA (Australian Rhyming Verse Association). It would be a big leap into the dark, of course. Some members would stay, some would drop off, some new members would come on board. Whether the overall situation would get better or worse would only become clear with the passage of time.

It might all be asking too much. It might simply be easier to start an ARVA, and then the ABPA could decide if it wanted to become an affiliated body or not.

I have one foot in the 'children's writers' camp and one foot in the 'bush verse' camp. What strikes me is that quite a few of the children's writers write rhyming verse - or aspire to do so - but none of them are members of the ABPA. The other interesting part of it all is that for every Facebook friend I have who is a bush poet, or ABPA member, I must have about ten who write for children.

Here's a little thought to finish with. Last year I attended a weekend conference on 'writing for children' in a Victorian country town. Most of the delegates stayed in the local motel. To save a few dollars, I decided to camp in a pretty camping ground in the nearby forest. It was late winter, and I was the only camper there. I was quite shocked, however, at the puzzlement of some delegates that I was not frightened at the prospect of spending the night with 'all the wild animals'. I simply make the point that most writers are city dwellers, with little affinity for the bush.

[william williams]

Perhaps a shorter format competition would have some merit. When contemporary(modern) or traditional(classical) sections are contested you often have a big number of long, serious poems being performed which can have a wearying effect on audiences. You would still need to have performance in mind .
Much more entertaining than watching someone read off a piece of paper.

Well John I would have to agree with you on some of those issues the length of many of these are long and would be hard to hold peoples attention and that in it's self is a problem
Readers Digest condensed books are able to do that with little harm to the story after all poems are just another form of story telling. Like yourself you are of the younger generation and by the way I wish I was as young as you but then again I would not have the memories that I and many others have, nor the history of life that you don't have. as to the last statement
you are entertained watching the TV screen but remember much of what you see, the actor often looks at an Idiot Sheet. I have to use that piece of paper to remember it as I and some others have had several strokes destroying that part that we wish that we still had.
It take a lot more guts to do that as we try to entertainer the audience with our voice whilst reading it. NO disrespect is intended to you John and other but just remember you will get old one day and just what will you do when time and progress passes you by.

Just a short note. 15 years ago in performance competitions in the ABPA they were looking for oral performers (meaning the use of their voice) and it did not matter whether they read it or remembered it as there were nearly as many read their works as those that remembered and there was no penalty for reading it.

BILL WILLIAMS THE OLD BATTlER

[manfredvijars]

Matt, you're a bastard ...

Rather than, as the OP suggested, "The ABPA Needs to Move Ahead", I think it's time the membership "moved on".
The comprehensive survey quantified what was suspected for many years - the extent of our aging demographic.

The 'Competition Model' ISN'T WORKING FOR US! IT ISN'T BRINGING NEW MEMBERS!!
What is IS doing is using up resources, sapping Human and draining financial while benefiting VERY FEW!!!
The ABPA isn't a welfare organisation, nor is is an employment agency.

We the membership, need to create our own markets AND embrace the Digital Media (DM)!
Those on this Forum are already 'embracing' DM - that is as great start!

The reason that "Bush" poetry isn't popular is we are perceived as dated and boring!
Good rhyming verse is hard to write - much harder than the slam and hip hop that is VERY popular.
But make no mistake - some SLAM AND HIP HIP is VERY exciting to watch and wonderful entertainment ...

Already there are ABPA members creating their own markets AND embracing DM, but you won't find them here complaining that the ABPA isn't this or isn't that ...

Competitions are important but they should not be the main focus for poets - written OR performance!
Workshops should be encouraged and supported. Workshops, not only on writing, rhyme n metre, but also discussions on marketing opportunities and bookings.

Maybe its not the ABPA that needs needs to move ahead, but some of the members???

[Stephen Whiteside]

On the question of competitions, and the suggestion that they are damaging the ABPA, two thoughts spring to mind.

Firstly, if there were no more competitions - or much fewer - what exactly would replace them as a focus for members' activity?

Secondly, most of them (at least the written ones) are not organised by the ABPA anyway, so I don't see how the ABPA could exert any control over them even if it wanted to.

[manfredvijars]

... In answer to the first, FESTIVALS, real festivals, where poetry is celebrated rather than contested. Festivals along the lines of Folk festivals.

... the second, I get countless requests that, the ABPA should put more money into and support more competitions. The membership wanted the ABPA to take on the Golden Dampers, those that cried the loudest in support of the notion are nowhere to be seen in support of the work involved in running that comp.

I have never said competitions are 'damaging', I maintain that they are resource intensive and only benefit a few with no real return to the clubs involved. The organisers are the same people who have been organising for years and they are getting older and tired.

The only 'competition' that the ABPA should be involved with are State and National Championships - and then only in a financial support role. And the only event that the ABPA should be organising is an Awards show, that acknowledges Poetry Excellence, not only in written and performance but in support, hard work and influence. This Gala Event would also be another source of income to the ABPA so that greater allocations of money could go to support the State and National champs. (Those championships currently cost upwards of $12,000 to $20,000 to host)