What's in a name ??

[Neville Briggs]

I was thinking to-day about Roald Dahl and his wonderfully imaginative stories and poems for children, and how he used names to make the characters come alive.

John Whitworth tells us that poetry is made from words not from ideas.
That is not to say that there are no ideas, only the sound of words. not so! but that the palette, as Manfred calls it, of our poetry pictures is made from words.

So often around the traps in the bush poetry presentations, there are, it has to be said, verse which presents interesting ideas, great history, humorous twists and so forth, but all set out in the most mundane and dreary words. No effort is apparent in choosing vitality in the language.
When I hear or see this done, I often think they would be better just putting some of these things into prose, because it really wouldn't make any difference to the impact, and they would have saved all that wasted effort of scounging around for unimaginative perfect rhymes and taking all that time to set out a metric pattern to no advantage, other than it passes the test of bush poetry definition.

So what about Roald Dahl? In his book Matilda, Dahl uses words, names that is, to create character in a very clever way. Matilda's parent's are called Mr and Mrs Wormwood. That name brings to mind how they are sleazy, sly and selfishly grasping, unethical people. The head teacher at the school is called Miss Trunchbull, which again paints a vivid picture of a violent, ruthless and graceless tryrant, which she is. The boy at the school who steals the teacher's cake is an obese, gluttonous child who is called Bruce Bogtrotter, the perfect sound of that sort of character.
These are small trivial examples. But we can see how Roald Dahl understood the power of words to invoke images.
I think that illustrates in a small way, what we need to really learn well to be writers of poetry. Not using funny names necessarily, using words crafted to be striking and memorable.

We can say we love Australia, it's a great place, and how much we enjoy the great outdoors and the desert air and the rolling surf and the blue mountains etc ect. So what, everybody knows that. Poetry needs to make all that new, to bring it into focus to present it as something, maybe we didn't see that way before.

I try to take to heart into both art and poetry the advice of the French painter Paul Gauguin who said that if we want to paint a tree, don't just use green, use the strongest brightest green on your palette. Don't make a picture of an apple just red, use the most vivid and glowing red that you can get.
Do you see what he meant ? Poetry is art, it should not be just a recording of what anyone can see, but a powerful oration for others of what we see. Should we just use words that are just enough to make the right idea, metre and rhyme or should we search for words that are dynamic and fire the imagination of the reader regardless of how ordinary the subject might seem to be.

Can I do all this ? Dunno, I keep trying, I might get there one day.

[Zondrae]

G'day Neville,

Are you sure you weren't a schoolteacher in a previous life? I appreciate your ideas or I should say the ideas you have posted. When our group, to which you came a few weeks back, read their weekly poem, I often give my vote - not to the best story -but to a poem in which some lesser used words have been included. On occasion, if I can see someone has stretched their use of language or style beyond their norm, (to encourage more of us to do it,) I will say why I voted like I did. Our DPA is hotly contested!

I love 'words', Not only special words, but expressive words, luscious words that fill, not only our tongues and lips but also our minds, however, to fit some of them into the metre we require is another thing. Also many words do not have a perfect rhyme and that poses another problem. (Try to find a perfect rhyme for 'poetry') I think that one of the best lines I have ever written is in a shortish poem of mine 'In The Dark'. It has been posted here and you could look it up in my index of poems, and see if you can pick it. ( if you wished to)

Keep up the little prodding now and then. I need it.

[Maureen K Clifford]

I love the thought of Luscious words instantly Nigella Lawsons picture popped into my head.

Totally agree with your thoughts Neville and they will encourage me to strive harder. Luckily I am a fan of words and a firm believer in the pen being mightier that the sword.

Cheers

Maureen

[Neville Briggs]

Thanks Maureen. Of course I should say I wasn't just meaning fancy words or big words, but words put into phrases and sentences in just the right and striking way to make them more vivid.


Interesting Zondrae that you mention the difficulties with metre. That's why free verse has become the most widely written in contemporary English language poetry because English just refuses to make clear syllabic stresses ( how many syllables in Wednesday or cemetery, or library ) and partly because of English's insatiable borrowing from other languages, rhyming is very difficult. Try rhyming in Italian, it's a cinch. all the words end in ini or ato or etti.

[warooa]

yes Nigella Lawson = luscious

[warooa]

But seriously I agree Neville . . it's not just the Trunchbulls and Bogtrotters, there's a certain rhythmic lilt that comes naturally to some and brings out the beauty of our language and how great exponents can make words sing. The strict confines of rhyme and metre can stifle such flow. But I guess that is part of the challenge.

Marty

[Neville Briggs]

No Marty. Not at all.


In fact your first phrase

He left the room in silence no one knew where he had gone

sounds to me as the much better one. The example you have given in the second phrase is actually the sort of thing that happens when people are straining to fit into a metre without using the most " punchy " phrases.
It depends on the mood and image......the second phrase might well be the best for a satirical verse. The first one looks like something that would fit a serious tragic ballad.
I'm not trying to lay down, one size fits all, or plug for " big words "

The strict confines of rhyme and metre can stifle such flow. But I guess that is part of the challenge.

Exactly right Marty.
The problem of the difficulty of fitting the best words into metre is solved by the free verse people by varying the metre along the line as they see fit. Then they have other challenges, varying the metre too much can result in something which is just prose chopped up.

The challenge for the syllabic/stress metre and rhyming verse is that, as you have said the metre can become a tedious repetition and the rhyme just a clanging bell.
The challenge there, for the likes of us is to find the best words and colour up the metre or else it just becomes, as someone has said, the banging of a drum.

[Maureen K Clifford]

He left the room in silence no one knew where he had gone
or
His surreptitious exit left his followers bemused

or

He blew through like a Bondi tram and no one rang the bell
and not one bugger paid the fare - for who was there to tell?

Marty you are in for a treat...A saddle for a throne is a bonzer poem

[Rimeriter]

The ACT Writers Centre presents Knocking your poems into their best possible shape with Kevin Higgins -

Good poems require the right combination of patience, inspiration and ruthlessness on the part of the poet.

Poems need to be given the chance to be born before facing the necessary rigour of the editorial knife, but once a poem has made its way to the first draft stage, everything must be up for question.

Is that adjective necessary or just a flowery decoration which adds nothing of substance?

Is the poem obscure to anyone not inside the poet's head?

If so, perhaps some small edit can help clarify?

Or, going the other way, perhaps the poem rams its case home one time too many by repeating - just in case the reader didn't get it the first time - what has already basically been said?

In the end, it's always the poet's own individual decision.
Poems are not written by committee.

It's just as important that a poet knows when to ignore criticism and go his or her own way as it is that he or she is open to the ideas of others.

All that matters is that your first draft be turned into the best poem it can possibly be on its own terms.

Comments anyone.

[Neville Briggs]

Sounds like good advice to me Jim.