The Boneyard

[Neville Briggs]

I don't understand the references to rhymed verse being a separate category from free verse.

Surely the contrast with rhymed verse is not free but unrhymed verse.
Some metred verse is unrhymed ( blank verse ) and some times free verse is rhymed, i.e. villanelle with free verse lines.

And surely the contrast with free verse is not rhyme but formal verse, and formal verse includes unrhymed verse i.e. blank verse, unrhymed sestinas.

So you see, I am puzzled by the distinction made on this post, it seems to confuse categories.

[Neville Briggs]

No Bob, that's a myth.

The reality is that writing poetry is much harder than producing mere verse. Poetry, that's the burden, whatever form is attempted.

[David Campbell]

Bob: If you’re talking about the ratio, I reckon quite a few poets in this community don’t enter open competitions because they think there’s no point, and there’s some validity in that if judges are expecting free verse (or have little knowledge of rhyming verse). But if we don’t enter those competitions that attitude is unlikely to change. If the ratio was 50:50 they’d have to take notice!

If you’re talking about the number of rhyming poems getting rejected, I think some people who attempt rhyming verse assume it’s a doddle, a case of chucking in some rhymes here and there and that’s it. There are always poems in competitions that leave you shaking your head and wondering why anybody would waste an entry fee on such rubbish. But, by the same token, even those who have a flair for writing can underestimate what is required…and that goes for free verse as well. Which, I think, is what Neville is saying in his second post.

Neville: With regard to your first post you’re technically correct, but it’s splitting hairs to some extent. I refer to “rhyming verse” because it makes more sense to the general public than “bush poetry”. And “free verse” is generally understood to be poetry that doesn’t rhyme in any consistent manner, and using the two terms like that is quite common. That’s how Shelley has done it, both here and in her judge’s report, and I doubt that anyone would have been confused. Competitions use a variety of terms, for example “traditional verse”, “rhyming poetry”, and “bush poetry” on the one hand, and “unrhymed free poetry”, “non-rhyming poetry” and “free verse” on the other. I’ve never seen “formal verse” as a descriptor…if you used it in a competition on the understanding that it included sestinas and blank verse I suspect people would definitely be confused!

Cheers
David

[Terry]

G/day David
You're right about most of us not bothering to enter Open comps, thinking as you say that we're wasting our time.
I've (I think) only entered one, and that was the Lambing Flat one last year which I had the good fortune to win with a real 'Bushy' type poem. In that case it seems that there were so many rhyming poems entered that they split it into two comps so I didn't really win an open one.
The interesting thing about it for me, was the fact that there were such a large number of rhyming poems entered. Perhaps we need to swamp a few of these comps with rhyming poems?

Terry

[Neville Briggs]

Thanks for that David.

[Bob Pacey]

Probably a bit of both David I can not remember the last comp I entered mainly because I'm such a fragile creature and I do not handle rejection well ! I think it is just a matter of having the tie and patience to cross the t's ect as Nev says it is not easy either way.


Every now and then I pull a gem out of my ( you know what ) and think this should go well but I find it hard to sit on them for any length and fall foul of the published rules.

Saying that I think you are right if a lot of our better writers swamped these competitions the tide ( if you can call it that ) may turn.

Like they say in the lead up to the slam performances " The points are not the point The point is the poetry "

Bob

[David Campbell]

I remember you mentioning that before, Terry, and it’s encouraging, but probably unusual. May it happen more often!

It’s interesting to see what’s happening around the place. The Coo-ee Festival people in Gilgandra have introduced a free verse category for the first time this year, presumably to boost the range of entries. It’s a good idea, and it has an incidental side-effect. The competition has four other categories for adults, but only one actually defines the sort of poetry required. The “Coo-ee March” section specifies a “traditional form poem”, but the other three categories (Outback, Humorous, and Open) don’t give any indication, so, theoretically, they couldn’t reject free verse. I’ve always assumed in the past that they expected rhyming verse, and the introduction of a separate free verse category now makes that pretty clear.

Then there’s the upcoming Ipswich Poetry Feast. They have two poetry categories, one for “Bush Poetry” (quoting the ABPA definition), and one for “Other Poetry”. But the latter is really an open competition because it accepts rhyming verse! In 2012 a very “bushy” rhyming poem won the “Other Poetry” section (you can check it out on their website), and last year Will Moody was Highly Commended for a rhyming poem in that section. Will’s poem was a terrific topical piece about education, and I’m guessing he entered it in that section because he didn’t think it would fit the bush poetry category…even though it clearly related to “Australia, its people, places, things and way of life”. So, if you’re a rhyming poet, how do you decide what’s suitable for each category given that sort of history? I have no idea.

I cite the above two examples just to give some insight into the confusion that exists out there in competition-land. Interpreting entry forms and guidelines is sometimes akin to reading tea-leaves.

Cheers
David

[Shelley Hansen]

David - you were just waiting for the right judge for "The Boneyard" (ha ha) Seriously, I'm amazed your poem was overlooked in previous bush poetry competitions. I hope the reason was that it was up against a field of excellence! And I agree with your comments about rhyming and non-rhyming verse and competition categories! I'm glad my judge's report for the Adelaide Plains competition wasn't confusing

Bob - that is an interesting point you made about the challenges of creating a good rhyming poem. David's poem can't be faulted from any point of view, but there are certainly fewer "structural" parameters to deal with if you're writing free verse. Anyone who enters rhyming verse in an open competition is, by the nature of their entry, going to be judged on more poetic aspects than a free verse entrant. That doesn't mean free verse has no rules (which some free verse poets seem to forget). I personally don't like to see prose masquerading as free verse just by being cut into lines. But the strict rhythm and rhyme of bush poetry obviously doesn't come into play with free verse. I guess that's why many bush poets avoid open competitions, because they know it's going to be an "apples and oranges" comparison. But a good poem of any structure and style should be able to hold its own in an open competition, if you have a fair-minded judge with a sound knowledge of poetry.

On another but related subject, I think it is good to see modern bush poetry branching out into contemporary subjects. One of the things some free verse exponents say about us is that we're stuck in the past with the droving days. That is no longer true. I believe our craft can well accommodate both historical and modern subjects - and it should do so, to keep it alive and vibrant. Banjo, Henry and Den addressed the topical subjects of their day, and so should we - along with our homage to the past.

Cheers, Shelley

[Maureen K Clifford]

I like the idea of flooding the poetry comps with some rhyming verse - we could, like the charge at Beersheeba, overwhelm the competition with our sheer persistence and courage

Do please support the Ipswich Poetry Feast - with whatever genre you fancy. We're broadminded out this neck of the woods. Entries close on 24th July and we are also civilized and up to the minute - you can do the whole thing on line and pay with Pay Pal.

[David Campbell]

I was disappointed, but not particularly surprised that The Boneyard missed out in those comps, Shelley. As we’ve discussed here before, there are so many variables in the judging process there is an element of luck involved. The poem that won last year’s Bush Lantern (Each Morning, When I First Awake…it’s on the poetry page) had also been in a couple of earlier competitions without any recognition at all. Sometimes it might be the subject-matter that’s the problem, at others it could be the poem’s structure…maybe the judge thinks rhyming verse should be in traditional ballad form (which the Bush Lantern poem doesn’t really follow). Only one of the three Bush Lantern judges had it in first place, but the aggregate result got it over the line. We all have our preferences. One bush poetry competition last year was criticised because the judge took a very narrow view on subject-matter. I agree entirely with your comment about contemporary subjects, and it’s great to see this increasingly reflected in results.

I don’t think there’ll be any problem with entries, Maureen…the Ipswich comp is usually very well-supported. It would help in future if they clarified their categories, though.

Cheers
David