Bush Poetry's Credibility??

[Zondrae]

I agree with you Bill,

It is a fine line between what the festivals or corporate jobs have to offer and what we think we are worth. As you have said, we must be carful not to cut off our own noses or kill the job all together.

[Stephen Whiteside]

Zondrae, I think it's a big mistake to throw festivals and corporate work into the same basket. It has always been understood that festivals pay poorly. The argument has always been, and it has generally been accepted, that there is a trade-off, insomuch as the festivals give the performer great exposure and publicity, and can potentially serve as a launching pad for other more commercially attractive work.

Spontaneity and flexibility have always been at the heart of the philosophy of festivals. It's wonderful the way you can be roped into some show at the last minute. I don't think that's demeaning to either the artist or their craft, it's part of the spirit of generosity that festivals rely on.

It is true that the National is quite generous in its payments. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why it now finds itself in so much trouble - not that I am an expert in these matters.

[keats]

I must disagree on some of the comments so far. My comments were proposed more towards the Private and Corporate function. Although there are moral grounds within Festivals, they are a totally different matter, as they are employing a great many, and a great variety of artists, therefore the funding has to be shared around more and on differing levels, depending on the demand of the artist or their genre. Folk Festivals have always offered Tickets and Accommodation as part of renumeration since I began doing them many years ago. Unfortunately in the early days there wasn't much more to go around. So travel became expensive and it was therefore considered more of a working holiday. But greatly enjoyable I must say! These days, however, I manage to find bookings elsewhere at the times these Festivals are on, which pay extremely better for working in a much more up close and personal setting.

The Corporate scene is totally different. You need a 'Product', an Entertaining Show to present to the Co-ordinators which include,
1. Originality
2. Entertainment and flexibility (this is where Comedy never fails to hit the mark - unless otherwise asked for, which is rarely)
3. A structured and consistent method of quoting.
4. Professional Communication
5. A willingness to follow the EXACT guidelines of the Employer re. the worksheet.

The moral principles are extremely important and have been mentioned here earlier. I think people may be confusing Professional Poetry with Festival Poetry and though a lot of people do both, poor performances and severely under charging at Private and Corporate Functions, is a way to put the Professional Performer out of business. Imagine if John Williamson turned up for a gig and found out he had been replaced by someone else who can 'play the guitar and sing a bit and knows True Blue'? I'm sure he would be happy to see that person get their 'big break' and I'm sure the audience would be thrilled about the situation and the quality of what they are getting for their money. Just remember that some of these functions start at $200 a plate and can be as much as $1000. So does every poet have an hour of original, very high quality and polished entertainment up their sleeve? They had better hope so, or that employer will never again hire anyone associated with 'Bush Poetry.

Just some more thoughts on the subject.

Neil

[Mal McLean]

Well, I've read this thread thoroughly and have had a bit of a think.

Seems to me that professional poets need to be organised, inside or outside the ABPA and to set standards and enforce them and need to have an agent who can handle bookings , payments, etc.

What do I mean by enforce? Well, I am personally aware of some professional organisations that black ball clients for a variety of reasons. No one else within those professions will take that client on unless they have expiated their sins, so to speak. On occasions, the professionals deal with their own members quite harshly as well.

I appreciate it might hurt to part with some hard won and deserved dosh as an agents fee but I think that's the way it works.

It might improve conditions. I dunno.

As a novice amatuer I admire and appreciate the pro's and don't want to see their fine work undercut and possibly ruined by anybody. I sure hope it wasn't any of my mob involved in this.

That's my two bob's worth as well.

Mal

[Glenny Palmer]

Just remember that some of these functions start at $200 a plate and can be as much as $1000.

I'm not myself today (& if I find out who I bloodywell am instead, I'll shoot her!) so I'm a tad muddle headed. I just want to ask you Neil what your above comment means...re ''a plate''
Ta lots
Glenny

[manfredvijars]

... Entry or Ticket price Glenny ...

[keats]

Yes, Dinner price is often referred to as a 'plate'. Therefore $500 a plate for a sportsman dinner means five hundred bucks to get in. Corporate sponsors often buy up one or two tables.

Neil

[Glenny Palmer]

Ta lots boys. I did think it was that, but because I'm a bit dopey today I thought I'd better check.

[Glenny Palmer]

Hey Mr Campbell...(there's too many 'Davids' on here) I'm not ignoring you dear....I'm just a bit crook & therefore muddle headed, so I'll catch up later when I can talk sense, ok? Appreciate your input. (Yours too Zondrae...hope I haven't missed anyone...)
Cheeers
Glenny

[keats]

Hi Glenny, a very god debate you started. But I still think people misunderstand the term 'Professional Poet'. I just see it as a person who goes beyond competitions and festivals and goes out looking for a diverse range of venues to take their talent to. Those who do make a living from it usually have other forms of associated income, sometimes advertising copywriting, song writing, journalistic endeavours etc.

I think that the whole point missed here is that some Poets go out and arrange jobs for themselves, only to be undercut by a poet not up to the job and most often tarnishing and advancement we have made with Bush Poetry, and thus is the reason they rarely ever advertise themselves to these venues as 'Bush Poets'. I know I certainly don't. I am a Bush Poet at Country Music Festivals, but at corporate functions I am a Comedian/Stand-Up Poet. Why? As I said, simply because some that jumped the gun have made Bush Poetry a very undesirable form of entertainment at Corporate Functions and the like. Festivals are fine, because there are usually a selection of Poets with limited time on stage, and therefore more variety, so quick changes in focus for the audience.

So as a final say, if you cannot offer the entertainment desired, then don't ruin it for the entertainer who can. That is being both greedy and unprofessional and boils down to being Ego-Driven and Lacking In Moral Standards.

And any of us who do these sorts of functions never tagged ourselves as 'Professional Poets'. That term was made up by others, and often used in more of a snide and derogatory way than anything else.

Neil