Metre and stress.

[Neville Briggs]

Some of our friends here still seem to have trouble with stresses and metre in their verse.
I have trouble too I'll give ya the drum !!
But some seem to need a bit of a hand, so I have tried to think of ways that might help explain.

I'll use as an example the famous Hallelujah Chorus by Handel, I think most people have heard the opening phrases sung somewhere, even in TV ads.
The opening phrases consist of one word...Hallelujah..and the choir pronounes it as
har-lay-loo-yah.

So the song goes;

HARRRRR-lay-loo-yah
HARRRRR-lay-loo-yah
harlay-LOO-yah
harlay-LOO-yah
har-LAYAYAY-loo-YAH.

As you can see, I hope, Handel has stretched the first syllable in the first two lines changed the stress syllable in the third line and both changed the stress and added extra syllables in the fifth line.
He hasn't even used the correct pronunciation because the word is really pronounced
Hallel-u-jah. First word like the word on the Arab shop Halal.

This is because Handel wanted the words to follow the rhythm of the music. The beat of the music was predominant in this work. Handel was a musician not a poet.

In poetry the words DO NOT FOLLOW the beat of the poem. The words in their ordinary speech pattern MAKE the rhythm of the poem. You should not assume to alter the stress pattern of speech words to " fit" the metric count in your poetry. Unless like Ogden Nash it is clearly done for effect.

I went to a workshop where Jim Haynes explained to us that writing song lyrics was a different project to poetry writing. Even though poetry has been used as lyrics. Lyrics do not usually work as poetry.


Does that help anyone. I think people have difficulty because they are used to the way song lyrics follow the beat of the music. I think we have to somehow get away from that and learn to concentrate on the " beat " of ordinary speech patterns, to get a good grip on how syllabic stress and metre work in poetry.

Poetry is the music of words, not the words for the music.


p.s. The capitals are for emphasis, not shouting.

[Wendy Seddon]

Thanks Nev for a well-aimed therapeutic kick.

I just get lazy.

Note to self - Take more pride in what you post!!!

[manfredvijars]

HUHHHH ?????

(I like "Poetry is the music of words, not the words for the music") ...

[Maureen K Clifford]

Now I am even more confused Neville - I get what you are saying - but isn't that a song????

[Neville Briggs]

I didn't mean to be kicking Wendy a nudge in the right direction might make a better metaphor

Thanks Manfred.

Sorry that you are confused Maureen. It is a complicated business. I sort of think I know
where people get tripped up but I am still racking my feeble brain to think of a way to make it clear.

You are pretty much on the right idea there Marty, only I disagree that anything fudged should be acceptable as legit practice either in written or performance.


I'm not saying anyone here is terrible.

I remember one of the bush poetry competition judges commenting on how so many of the entries did not make the grade in basic metric construction. And I was just trying to pass on the limited understanding that I have been able to glean from various masters.

I think it would help if someone was able and willing to produce an audio CD together with a small booklet which gave both the written and sounded application of basic metric construction. Maureen, I think that both are needed side by side to dispel confusion.

I think it is an important issue. The man held to be one of the worst poets in the English language, William McGonagall, had the outstanding fault that he did not in any way, understand metric construction or syllabic/ stress arrangement ( and other things too ).