A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Discussion of any bush poetry topic.
ONLY Registered Forum Members have access to this Forum.
Neville Briggs
Posts: 6946
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: Here

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Neville Briggs » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:24 am

Heather wrote:Does your brain ever go to sleep Neville?
All the time Heather, especially when I try to write some poetry, and want to think of words. :roll:

On the original subject of rhyme. One of Matt's favourite lyricists is Paul Kelly.
I saw in a poetry book ( Best Poems of 2009, Black Inc ) that one of Paul Kelly's lyrics called One More Tune was included as a poem. It uses ; down/sound, room/tune, and even uses tune to rhyme with tune. What do you know. :) It's not a bad poem for a modern muso. :roll: ;)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

User avatar
Maureen K Clifford
Posts: 8153
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:31 am
Location: Ipswich - Paul Pisasale country and home of the Ipswich Poetry Feast
Contact:

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:06 pm

Paul Kelly is one of the best - love his songs and my favourite probably the one he wrote with Kev Carmody - From little things big things grow

A very talented man IMO

You can read and hear Paul and Kev sing the lyrics here -

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/p/paul ... _grow.html
Check out The Scribbly Bark Poets blog site here -
http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/


I may not always succeed in making a difference, but I will go to my grave knowing I at least tried.

User avatar
Bob Pacey
Moderator
Posts: 7479
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:18 am
Location: Yeppoon

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Bob Pacey » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:59 pm

Heather it was

26 degrees here today and even the unheated pool was 23 degrees told ya so .


Bob
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

Heather

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Heather » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:11 pm

Oh be quiet!

Been travelling with Paul Kelly :)

User avatar
Peely
Moderator
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:50 am
Location: Tumut, NSW

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Peely » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:49 pm

G'day All

In my own opinion, I think that near rhyme does have a place in bush poetry. I think that it can be used quite successfully for effect, however if it is overused, the poetry starts to sound more like blank verse or free verse (depending on whether the writer has a good or bad knowledge of metre). As has been pointed out, there are many examples in the writing of a number of the early bush poets. 'Bellbirds' by Henry Kendall is a very early bush poem that uses a number of near rhymes. There are un-accented rhymes (torrents - currents, ever - river, sorest - forest). 'Childhood' and 'wildwood' are not a true double rhyme - in a true double rhyme, the unaccented syllable is a repeated sound, not a rhymed sound as in this example. The nearness in sound to a true double rhyme is what makes it work. Otherwise, there is a singular with a plural (summer - far-comers). 'Tresses' and 'wildernesses' is another interesting one, noting that the end part of wildernesses isn't normally stressed.

Near rhymes can be slotted in where the lines are enjambed quite successfully - any difference in sound can often be ran on into the opening sound of the next line. An example might be:

"...in the pub their town is built around
that's called, 'The Riverside'." (pinched from one of my own poems)

In the example, I have rhymed 'town' with 'around' and the 'd' sound runs in fairly smoothly with the 'th'. I'll let you make your own minds up as to whether or not my choice of rhymes was lazy, but this one seems to work OK for me.

The use of near rhyme is much more obvious where the lines are end-stopped (finished with a natural pause - for example a full stop, comma or semi-colon) particularly when the lines are badly written. For example:

"And one day in the future when my living I have earned -
I'll be finished in the city, to the bush I will return." (pinched from an old poem of mine, pre-editing - the edited lines are much better, thankfully)

The above can be looked at as lazy writing. Both lines contain phrase inversions to give a poor rhyming pair.

To sum up, provided that the lines are well written and the technique is used sparingly, I think that near rhyme does have a place.

Regards


John Peel

As an aside, I wouldn't consider assonance as a form of rhyme, I would suggest the reverse. Rhyme is a special case of assonance - all rhyming pairs of words contain assonance.
John Peel - The Man from Gilmore Creek

User avatar
Maureen K Clifford
Posts: 8153
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:31 am
Location: Ipswich - Paul Pisasale country and home of the Ipswich Poetry Feast
Contact:

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:54 am

Oh Wow John - never even thought about things like this :cry: Now my head is reeling - your detailed explanation is excellent and will I am sure be a help to many people - makes me realize yet more shortcomings in my own work - oh well - back to the drawing board and it's always a good day when you came learn something new. Thank you John :)
Check out The Scribbly Bark Poets blog site here -
http://scribblybarkpoetry.blogspot.com.au/


I may not always succeed in making a difference, but I will go to my grave knowing I at least tried.

Neville Briggs
Posts: 6946
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: Here

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Neville Briggs » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:09 am

That's a good approach John.

The only thing I would wonder about is this
Peely wrote:the poetry starts to sound more like blank verse or free verse
I don't quite understand what you mean by that.
To my mind, the metre and even the rhyming are basically the organising principles of the poem. What it " sounds like " I thought was mainly to sound like...well..just poetry, i.e. heightened speech designed to bring out the emotion and force of language.

It's good of you to take time to set out some opinions. Food for thought. :)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

User avatar
Peely
Moderator
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:50 am
Location: Tumut, NSW

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Peely » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:50 am

G'day Neville

What I meant there was that if you know that what you are reading is supposed to be a rhyming piece and you find yourself searching for the rhymes, it can lose its effectiveness. There are poems that I have read in the past where I have looked at a particular stanza for example, and wondered where the rhymes are. In these cases, you have to look closely to see if they are in fact rhymed in some way.

I would agree with you though, that if a poem is written well enough, it is still poetry though. Given the requirements of this genre of poetry, it may not be as easy to class such a poem as a bush poem.

Regards


John Peel
John Peel - The Man from Gilmore Creek

User avatar
Peely
Moderator
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:50 am
Location: Tumut, NSW

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Peely » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:09 pm

A pleasure, Maureen
John Peel - The Man from Gilmore Creek

Neville Briggs
Posts: 6946
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: Here

Re: A rhyme is a rhyme is a rhyme.

Post by Neville Briggs » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:50 pm

It's just that I think that the rhymes should serve to make the poem, not the other way around. ;)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Post Reply