Lunch Time

[Glenny Palmer]

Nearly there Dave.....

I suggest that you call 'her indoors' as 'Her Indoors' the same as you would 'Jack Smith'. It is a name label, albeit...ummm.. so it makes it clearer to the reader...especially one who is more prone to calling his nearest & dearest 'Beloved' (?)

"Her indoors came out just then, with a laden tray of food"
Your problem here is that the 'a'...laden....upends the meter by inserting one extra weak (unstressed) syllable into the line. I'd suggest:
"Her Indoors came out just then with plates and bowls of food.'' Something like that.

One other very important thing is to always write as you would normally speak! eg. In conversation you would never say....
"If he could find just one beaut word that into place would drop"...
you would say: " If he could find just one beaut word that would drop into place." That of course is not in meter & it is your job to meter it, so that it sounds like normal speak. Try to avoid inverting your lines, which is what you have done here.

Hope this helps, for this & for future works.
Cheeers
Glenny

[Rimeriter]

All very interesting.
Jim.

[Glenny Palmer]

Maureen, may I just point out something in your suggestion that should be a great help to aspiring writers.


You suggested:
"Her indoors came out just then, with tray laden with food"
This is indeed is IN Iambic. But.........

Her in-doors came out just then, with tray lad en with food

This is a clear demonstration of where many poets come completely undone, because when they scan the poem it IS indeed in meter. However...look WHERE the stresses FALL. (I've done the stressed sylls above in bold. And in the word 'laden' the stress is ON the 'en'. So you are required to speak it as 'ladEN'. Imagine saying,'That tree is ladEN with fruit.' You NEVER WOULD. You would say it was LADen.

So I hope this answers the question I get ALL THE TIME about WHY a poem doesn't work when it IS metrically correct.

Ta for the opportunity to demonstrate this Maureen.

Cheeers
Glenny

[Rimeriter]

Even more interesting.
Jim.

[Glenny Palmer]

You know Jim, it really is not that difficult to learn these things, if you have a dedicated tutor on hand. It all appears to be hi-brow "rules" that turn a lot of creatives off....but they aren't "Rules", they are PROVEN TECHNIQUES that turn a handyman's work into a craftman's piece. BUT.....you must have poets who care sufficiently about their craft...& it IS a craft, to practice these things, & who are willing to accept constructive advice.....which, by the way, takes a bloody lot of effort from the 'dedicated tutor.'
I see great potential on this site being washed down the drain, all the time, & it makes me weep.....when they just don't want to know...sometimes even after they have asked for assistance!
Please don't think I am taking offence at your comments. I am not. Hopefully, they mean that you may be interested in the hints that many poets contribute. This site is a tremendous learning resource where we can all help each other, as long as the help is genuinely sought, appreciated, & acted upon, otherwise the 'help' is just a waste of another's valuable creative time.
Also, Goodonya Dave for actually going public with a sincere request, that you have obviously appreciated...and...acted upon. Good luck with your future works. I see you improving bit by bit all the time.

Goodo.

Glenny

[Rimeriter]

"Thank you".
All I am indicating is don't take the FUN out of it.
The modern M'arms of FAW attempted to do that for me some years back.
Others have almost re-written a full piece in their attempt to make it 'fit'.

RULES for competitions are imperative and must be followed precisely.

As I indicate, I am - a writer of rhyme havin' a good time - whilst
painting word pictures for others to enjoy.
That is if they want to. (perhaps that is a split infinitive) But you understand that which I said ?

Please, come and stand with me under that tree in Tib., along with 'the bloke'.

Tibooburra -
" when it's HOT.

Is deadly, dry and dusty,
far too hot to think.

Even lizards carry waterbags
to often have a drink.

A scaly creature crossed the road runnin’ like a flash,

enough to be mistaken for the ‘undred metre dash.

The bloke I ‘ad been yarnin’ to standin’ in the shade,

said

“See that scaly critter go - he’s really got it made”.


I asked

“ Isn’t it unusual to see that kinda thing ?"

hopin’ he would talk.


“Yeah”, he said laconically -


“usually they walk”.


(c). Rimeriter. 23/1/06.
Graphics by Joseph Sayer.

[Maureen K Clifford]

Thanks Glenny - How long have I been struggling with this stressed thingy and you trying to set me to rights and I still stuff up - I come from Ipswich and it seems that Please Explain doesn't cut it.

Thank you though for showing me that because I am sure that is where I am going wrong with any comp entries I submit....will just have to try harder. Sorry Dave for the bum steer I was sure I had it right Bugger

[Glenny Palmer]

Mausey...delete those bloody I'm sorry if I embarrassed you....I didn't mean to do that, but you offered such a pearler of an opportunity to get this very important message across, that I really wanted to capitalise on it for the benefit of all. It is probably the SINGLE biggest headache most 'learning' poets struggle with. They scan the poem, say 'yep, it's in meter & it rhymes correctly' & then can't for the life of them UNDERSTAND WHY the bloody thing just doesn't 'sound' right...doesn't 'flow' properly....& then they are inclined to think 'this meter stuff is crap!'

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO WATCH W H E R E THE STRESS FALLS.

(I dooo get a tad over passionate about my great loves, I'm sorry, & crafting poetry just happens to BE my great love.)

[Glenny Palmer]

G'day again Jim,

'FAW' stands for 'F^$!&NG AWFUL WRITERS'...IMHO.

Whyyyyy, mate, would you NOT be having FUN with your poetry, just because you employed basic techniques?? Do you think I DON'T have the best FUN there IS while writing mine?
Do you think I had never had more fun, or was ever sooo excited to discover techniques that would make my poetry more readable, & better received from a performance?
Do you reckon Marco Gliori or Bobby Miller don't/didn't have FUN with their poetry?
If you get the BASICS under control, & keep employing them, what I've seen happen is, that the writer graduates to almost automatically writing 'in technique.' And THAT is FUN!...and...satisfying.

As far as competition "Rules" go......what sort of credibility would our genre have if awards were given out to poems that don't reflect the basic requirements of a properly 'readable' poem? And more to the point, how much credibility, to our (somewhat)respected craft, is lost when the local baker judges & gives an award to a poorly structured poem?

Any form of quality entertainment requires the presenters to be accomplished. You can be sure that Laurence Olivier learned & employed acting techniques. I just get frustrated when such relatively easy to learn fundamentals of our craft are divorced from 'having fun'. It's not an either/or situation. And if one doesn't want to learn them & is happy as they are.....goodo....but don't pay out on those who do. "The accomplished" don't invalidate the learners, we TRY to help them. So WHY do some learners consistently invalidate "the accomplished"? Perhaps....they don't feel enough self confidence or belief in their talent to embark upon improving? Or...perhaps...they already think they are Paterson reincarnated & don't want that delusion dispelled?

Anyway, I thought your poem was quite FUNny Jim.

BTW...Dave. Your bloody 'Lunch' has given me indigestion. I'm orf to hit the booze!
xxxxxxxxx Glenny

[David Campbell]

Well said, Glenny! Writing poetry of any sort is a constant learning curve...watching what others are doing, experimenting, playing with words and ideas, always trying to improve...no reason why that can't be fun. And we have a responsibility to present our work in the best possible light. Others will judge the bush poetry scene by what they see in print.

Cheers
David