Judging performance poetry.

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Neville Briggs
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Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Neville Briggs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:27 pm

Heather. It can be done , reading, listening and looking. Orchestra players do it all the time, get the articulation of the instrument right, read the part, play the music ,listen to the other players, watch the conducter. And the conductor reads all the parts of the orchestra on a sheet called a score, and watches all the players to see that they enter on time and listens to all the players to co-ordinate the sounds of multiple parts. One would hope that our bush poetry judges are equally skilled operators of the same calibre of the orchestra, surely they can read, listen, watch at the same time also.

That's a good point William, that a poet's own work is theirs to interpret as they see fit, but since memorisation seems to be so important to the bush poetry judges, I thought that it would help if they had a way of checking the validity of the memorisation.

It could go round in circles Marty, I think it is not a bad thing if we just throw a few thoughts around for a while , I'm not interested in winners or losers, more in trying to be clear about why I hold to my views. :)


Interesting angle Robyn. It's hard to draw lines I think. I know what you mean, and I know what Glenny means, she has a good point to consider.
I think the line is probably being crossed when the act of the performer takes all attention away from the poem. When the poem becomes just another prop for the performer's antics, if you like. That's just my view, others might accept things differently.

As far as props and costumes. I think that depends on the poem. Some poems lend themselves to a bit of embellishment, some just don't need it and others are just distracted or even demolished by any visual decoration.
So that one I think is a highly subjective matter. Who can tell for sure?

Good on ya Bob. I used to work with this bloke who, when I disagreed with him, would say " That's all right, everyone is entitled to their own idiotic, ridiculous opinion " :lol:
Last edited by Neville Briggs on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

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Bob Pacey
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Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Bob Pacey » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:29 pm

Good one Nev I'll remember that one might need it sometime.



Cheers Mate

Bob
The purpose in life is to have fun.
After you grasp that everything else seems insignificant !!!

william williams

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by william williams » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:28 pm

hey Bob who's arguing I'm not. Did that once and got a black eye from me missus.

bill the old battler

william williams

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by william williams » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:43 pm

No Neville I would beg the differ.
For I believe it is the judges job to listen and tick the boxes to SEE and HEAR if the performer is doing his job, I do not believe it is the job of the judge in an original poem to see that it is word perfect

bill williams

manfredvijars

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by manfredvijars » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:48 pm

Many of the competitions that I've been involved with have a "Judging Criteria" sheet that is given to judges for their respective comp. The sheets itemise and give the criteria a weighing.

North Pine give out the judging criteria with the entry forms. I believe that some other organisers do as well ...

________________________________________________________________
Here is the criteria pulled from the 2009 Camp Oven Festival ...

ASSESSMENT CRITERIA
These are the CRITERIA on which your performance is being assessed.

In the usually-accepted terminology...

PREAMBLE - Set the mood in word or character for what is to follow

CLARITY - Diction is clear

APPROPRIATE VOLUME & RANGES - Variations befitting the action and
emotion of the poem being presented

APPROPRIATE PACE & VARIATIONS - The pace reflects the action, ideas,
humour and mood as the poem unravels

INTONATION, PITCH EMPHASIS & INFLECTION - These need to be relevant to the ideas, action and emotions being expressed

GESTURES - Appropriate/relevant to the action described

AUDIENCE - Performer has relevant eye contact

MEMORISATION - The uninterrupted flow of the original words of the author

ORIGINALITY - Appropriate, inventive style / ideas (particularly in Original Sections)

CHOICE OF POEM - Material should not generally offend and is appropriate to the presenter


TIME-KEEPING. Time commences from when the entrant begins to speak. The Time Keeper must accurately time all contestants — indicating the time limit has been reached by some soft audible means and repeat the sound at fifteen (15) second intervals.

ASSESSMENT of PERFORMANCES. Performances will be assessed to a maximum of 100 points per each of the criteria on the Assessment sheet. (The high scoring technique on the Assessment Sheet greatly assists in eliminating ties)

Penalties for overtime are to be deducted at the rate of 5 points for every 15 seconds or part thereof. Over time should be advised by the time-keeper to the scrutineers who can make the necessary deductions from the performer’s aggregate of points for that poem.

Vic Jefferies
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Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Vic Jefferies » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:23 pm

I have judged a few competitions and must admit when it came to awarding marks for memorization I was a bit bewildered as to how I was expected to make a decision in relation to those poems performed that I didn't know. I understood that a stumble or a blank pause should attract some sort of penalty but how could I be expected to know whether the reciters were accurately reciting their chosen (or harder still) their own poem?
It is my opinion that we have a problem in poetry performance competitions in that we now lump poetry and burlesque or variety entertainment together. Some of those competing present poetry and some set out to entertain with props and comedy . Nothing wrong with either but when we place them together in the same competition we create a dilemma. It becomes entertainment versus poetry!
I think this is perfectly illustrated by Greg North who expertly presents The Man From Snowy River in fourteen different accents and characters. A truly remarkable, skilful and very, very funny performance but where does this leave the classic reciter who presents their poem in the traditional way in the same competition? Two completely different but great performances and how is the judge to decide?
There are a great many poems presented in competitions that are extremely funny and very entertaining that are in reality absolutely awful, but they still win because they are judged on their entertainment value, comedic content and audience appeal rather than their poetic value or presentation.
As someone once said to me most competitions are about "bums on seats" and from a practical point of view I have to agree. People come to be entertained and sadly that often means dumbing down the art!

Vic Jefferies

Rimeriter

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Rimeriter » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:30 pm

Do it for fun.

Enjoy it yourself.

Then many others will too.

Jim.

Rimeriter

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Rimeriter » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:20 pm

Once it becomes 'Art', is it then too far removed from the populace to enjoy ?

Jim.

manfredvijars

Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by manfredvijars » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:08 pm

What this thread has highlighted is that there may be a distinction in performances between those with props and those without - Formal performance and Entertainment perhaps?

Would an Entertainer hold an advantage over a 'formal' performer in competition?

Should there be a distinction?

Given that 'bums on seats' popularises (and grows) our craft, is there a way we can 'grow' our Entertainers?

Music and dance eisteddfods exist for individuals to hone their craft. Not every singer, muso or dancer wants to be an entertainer.

Vic Jefferies
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Re: Judging performance poetry.

Post by Vic Jefferies » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:22 pm

Precisely!

I haven't got an answer apart from saying that somewhere along the way bush poetry has come to encompass a multitude of skills. The person who thinks they are going to win a competition by perfecting the art of recitation is now (sadly) deluded.
I do not criticise one or the other, the reciter nor the performer. The sad part is they are lumped together and too often the only resemblance to poetry that many "performers" have is their presentations ( sometimes) include rhyme.
The point I am trying to make is we have to understand where we are and not delude ourselves that our performance competitions are about good poetry or great recitation, they are in the main concerned with entertainment and the best entertainer not the best presenter often wins.

Vic

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