Bush Poetry's Credibility??

[Glenny Palmer]

...
There has been much discussion in the past of why the genre of Bush Poetry seems to suffer a lack of credibility/value in the general domain of the Arts, & in some areas of public perception. I think I have identified a very real contributor to this regrettable situation. And that is, in my direct recent experience, the attitude of some poetry groups that any ‘opportunity’ to take the stage is advantageous. I respectfully suggest that to be offered an ‘opportunity’ to perform for the remuneration of (quote) ‘…a possible offset to petrol costs’ (unquote) by an event organiser with a healthy enough budget, and a guaranteed large following, is a profound insult. To see my colleagues highly excited & enthusiastic at the prospect of being taken extreme advantage of by one such organiser, does not please me. It pleases me even less when a potentially productive event I had quoted for, was lost to my group of ‘colleagues’ enthusiasm to perform for ‘a possible offset to petrol costs’ for the same canny organiser. But the issue is clearly far more important than my particular sad experience. We need to ask just why it is that our value as contributing performers seems to often be perceived in the ‘donation’ light? It seems quite clear to me. Who, in their right mind, is going to willingly pay for what they perceive as ‘the same thing’ when they can get it for free?...or for .65cents per litre of a communal busload of eager ‘performers’. (Of course I am not referring to contributing to genuine charities here, or for that matter, colleagues in our field who are genuinely struggling to establish an ongoing event.) Sour grapes? You bet! It is not a nice feeling when a group you have historically contributed to, slides the rug out from under your ailing bank balance.
But my much higher concern is for how this attitude that seems to pervade amateur poetry groups impacts upon our generally perceived value as an artistic community.
Of course we all need opportunities to graduate in our craft, but at what cost to the wider poetry community? Perhaps it is past time that our well meaning & (sometimes overly enthusiastic) poetry groups demanded more appropriate & responsible policy from their committees? I suggest that they adopt a more responsible attitude to their own value when approached by event organisers; that they rightfully demand more respect for their requested performance contribution than to settle for such an insulting offer of ‘remuneration.’ As I pointed out to the group in question here, how would they all react if the organiser had asked them all to hire a bus & come along to clean his house for free? The key word here is appropriate (remuneration.) Some colleagues do not feel ‘professional’ enough to demand a fee as yet, & I fully understand this. But are they keeping sight of the fact that an organiser, with a budget, is acting in a professional capacity, for a professional project, & is clearly out of line to then request donated expertise? And every requested contribution that a poet makes to an event involves his/her (often hard won) expertise, regardless of the individual's particular level of achievement.
I can’t see out genre progressing to a higher credibility/value perception while ever we don’t hold & demonstrate that perception of ourselves. And gleefully embracing being taken complete advantage of, in the name of ‘personal performance development’ is, in my opinion, at the cost of our wider poetry community.

[croc]

...

I'm coming on my horse.... is there any chance that the 'budget' will stretch to a bit of a bit of hay.

...c

[william williams]

yes croc if you travel in spring time there will be some grass growing along the way to help

bill the old battler

[croc]

...
Good-o

[keats]

Yes Glenny, this has been a problem for some time, and has also been the downfall of some Festivals and regular jobs. I have seen Corporate Functions taken over by people who 'thought' they could do the job, did it for basically nothing, and failed dismally, therefore putting our genre in these avenues into the 'cheap and nasty' basket. You just need to look at how the professional performers can regularly hold Corporate audiences on the edge of their seats, the Murray Hartins and Rupert McCalls, etc. to realise that those who pay good money for entertainment from our genre expect high quality entertainment.

Too many 'Performers' go out armed with a couple of Bobby Miller poems, a Marco Gliori, a Bob Magor and a Muzza poem, and expect renumeration for memorising someone else's works, and more often than not to the detriment of the writer themselves, who may suffer badly in attaining future jobs because the last performer they had did such an terrible job.

It is not a matter of picking on our fellow poets, it is simply a matter of people realising that you do not take jobs from somebody else, especially if you cannot handle the job, and if you do believe you can then CHARGE ACCORDINGLY.

It is much the same over recent years with CD sales. Some spend money to have their CD professionally recorded and packaged, whilst some sell home recorded and burnt CDs with Photocopied covers. Then they believe they have a right to sell them for the same price as the professional items. Some may only charge half of that, but I have, on many, many occasions, working on the road, heard somebody say, "No thanks, we bought ...............'s CD last week and it was terrible, you could hardly hear anything.

What you say Glenny, can be construed as sour grapes, but I have lost a couple of very good jobs in the past much the same way. Now those festivals do not even have Bush Poetry. They saw it as a genre that attracted a very poor crowd and was was of a very poor standard. Basically they got what they paid for and I lost a couple of very good jobs that attracted very large crowds.

I don't know what we do about it as performers, but I am with you on this one.

Neil

[Brenda Joy]

G'day Glenny, Neil,

Perhaps we, as a group, need some 'basic wage' guidelines for quoting for events (not 'genuine' charities) - e.g. the minimum charge for running a poet's breakfast, the minimum charge for being a performing poet at a one day/two day/three day festival, etc., the minimum charge for being an MC..... Then, of course, fees for experience/excellence/establishment/name could be added on by individual performers at their discretion but no-one would be offering their services below the minimum.

A lot of poets simply don't know what to charge as the fees offered by different organizations vary so considerably.

What do you think?
Brenda

[keats]

We will wait for more input on this, as it is not just about money. It is about supplying Functions, and Festivals with quality performance which is what they expect for the money they are willing to pay. As for any artist, my prices for Corporate Functions to Festivals and all jobs in between is not up for discussion with anybody bar the organisation I work for, which is the same with most professional poets I know. It is about having an entertaining product to give to a certain crowd that the employer is catering for and to leave on a high note and even leave it accessible for other performers you may feel have something to offer the venue.

No, money is not the only issue at stake here, as Glenny said, it's the credibility of Bush Poetry as a form of high quality entertainment in a variety of areas that is at stake here. There are plenty of places for people to perform without trying to muscle in on, as in cases I have seen, armed with little more than an ego and no moral standing and completely destroying the event for anybody in the future due to simply poor performances. The professional poets of today, no matter what people say, all started the same way. All had to work their guts out to create a viable package to offer on the market and work even harder to keep it fresh and improving on it. To find new outlets, new audiences, create new venues, new festivals. And they have worked hard at it and certainly not for some others to ride on the coat tails and get a free ride into those established areas only to ruin them from lack of work and experience.

Glenny has been working her guts out for years to get where she is. Australian Championships, Written awards, working with every other professional poet in the industry and creating and organising events for others.

Undermining someone like that is not just poor form, but a blight on our family of Bush Poets.

Neil

[manfredvijars]

We have a Register for Judges ... Maybe a Register for Professional Poets could be the go ...

I can see a lot of advantages in this ....

[keats]

Great input Marty. The Longyard is a bit different, as in people getting a crack there as it is like a variety concert and letting some not so seasoned perform is a lot of what the whole Longyard experience is about. As long as the entire nine days of breakfasts are an entertainment hit, then the bosses are happy. Lot different than the private and corporate shows.

Great to hear your opinions

Neil

[Glenny Palmer]

I really do appreciate this feedback, mates. Perhaps my little hissy fit may lead to much needed improvements for all? I do sincerely hope so. I don't like to whinge & be seen as a cranky old bat, and I must impress that I am not meaning to denigrate this group in any way. I am certain that this incident occurred in all innocence of the majority, but my frustration boiled over because I have tried & yet tried again to impress upon them how very important this 'placing a value' on one's contribution IS, not only to the individual or group, but to the best interests of our BP wider community. Because it was only a matter of weeks since I'd tried to warn again of the possible negative consequences involved, which went unheeded...again...well, you know the rest....
This is not about 'poor me' being professionally undermined, and from 'within' (disheartening, but not life threatening) as I am certain the same thing has happened to the vast majority of our performers. It is about my concern that until we, as a collective, place a value upon our work, regardless of individual accomplishment, we can hardly expect organisers & the general public to do so. What future can we realistically expect for our wonderful art form if we continue in this manner? It may well be an issue arising out of complete innocence, but when it equates to not only not supporting our craft's best interests, but actually undermining it, well that is just not good enough.
I am so pleased to see some of our premier poets suggesting further discussion on this matter, with a view to perhaps 'educating' our flock in better practice, & even assisting poets/groups as Brenda was asking for. My thanks to you all.
Sincerely
Glenny