Metre

[alongtimegone]

Hi there ... A first timer.

I am rewriting some of my poems to comply with advice I have received about metre. However, I find that in the alteration of some lines, the rhythm is upset rather than enhanced.
I am a musician and have written and performed music and lyrics over a long lifetime so I am very comfortable with rhythm in all of its shapes and sizes.
I have included one of my poems to illustrate my thinking. Each line is 15 syllables long, read as is. If I remove the words in red and make the substitutions that are bracketed, the affected lines no longer have the same metric consistency as those in the rest of the poem, but I believe a smoother reading and/or recitation is achieved. All comments / advice appreciated.

Snowy and the Ant

We were sitting in the wool shed. It was too hot in the sun.
Snowy wore his Aussie shorts. You know … the ones that show your bum.
Now he’d dropped some flaky pie crust as his north and south took grips
on a golden crusted home bake that caressed his sun chapped lips.
He didn’t see the bulldog ant. To be truthful, nor did I.
But it had its ant antenna focussed square on Snowy’s pie.
Well this raised serious problems that no bushy could predict,
for a trip through Snowy’s boxers was the path the bull ant picked.
Poor Snowy sat there peacefully, unaware of bull ant’s move,
‘till climbing north it finally reached his shorts revealing groove.
I reckon it was tuckered out and decided on a kip.
and a little snack while resting, to sustain it on its trip,
‘Cause suddenly all hell broke loose and Snowy’s up off his date.
Man! That home baked pie went flying, high across the sheep yard gate.
Poor Snowy pirouetted. He can-canned deftly round the floor
Tried valiantly to shed his shorts and failed to see the door
For just the briefest ‘time stood still’ he remained (sat) there on the ground
Then screaming like a banshee he took to flying round and round.
He waltzed and jived and jitter bugged. He fandangoed and he tapped.
His two-step was terrific … and how that country boy could rap
Now at times when we’re together, for a cold one and a pie
One story is (story’s) guaranteed to make us laugh until we cry
It’s not the pain and suffering that the ant caused Snow that day
It’s his anguish when he tells us that “The bastard got away.”

[Neville Briggs]

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve, but your verse doesn't sound too bad to me, either way.

I struggled and puzzled with metre until I was able to understand with the help of writer Stephen Fry, that there are two main types of metre used in bush poetry and it's really necessary to be clear on which one is being used.
There is syllabic/stress metre. In this metre, the stressed and unstressed syllables are counted and carefully arranged to a regular pattern.

This is what Paterson did when he wrote
" It was the man from Ironbark that struck the Sydney town "

There are seven unstressed syllables each one followed by a stressed syllable in a strict pattern called iambic.
That's syllabic/stressed.

If Paterson had wanted to make stressed metre. he could have written.

"It was the bushman from Ironbark, who struck the old Sydney town "

There are still seven stresses in the rhythm. But there are more than seven unstressed.
It can be done this way. That's stressed metre. The stressed syllables are regular and counted, the unstressed need not be.


I think the trick is that whichever way one chooses to do it. It should be carefully placed so that things don't look like mistakes, but part of a pattern, meant to be regular or meant to be irregular.

The only other comment on your verse would be to think about making breaks between some lines so that your poem is divided into several stanzas. I think that makes it easier to read and visualise the action. There's no rule that I know of , it is just a matter of " feel " so that's up to you.

[alongtimegone]

Thanks Neville ...I just want to ensure that my writing does enjoy the regular pattern you refer to, so that it reads the same, regardless of the reader. I have been concentrating on syllables only. As the author, I read it the way I intend it to be read aloud. It has been pointed out to me that this is fine in performance work but doesn't always cut it in just the written sense. I'll have a think about the stress patterns.
Thanks again.

[Irene]

Or, Keeping with the same syllable count, seven stresses and rhyme, it could have been written like this:

It was the old man from Ironbark that struck Sydney Town

- doesn't quite flow the same!!

Wazza (see, I just read your other post!! )
While it is good to work towards getting all three elements of bush poetry working well - rhyme, rhythm and syllable/stress count - don't be too hard on yourself initially.
As a songwriter, you have most of it anyway.
It does depend on how much you like to work towards perfection. And very much depends on what your goal is for your poetry!! If you don't want to enter written or performance competitions, you don't need to be so pedantic, though it is good if you are. I believe that some of the best entertainers in bush poetry do not always perform works that are technically perfect, but they work extremely well with the right poet.

Goes with what feels right for you - ask for advice, listen to advice, but take only that which feels right!! Those who offer the advice will not be offended as they all know it is your poem!!

Catchya
IRene

[alongtimegone]

Thanks for that Irene. I'd like to get as close to correct as possible and I've had some very helpful advice including yours.
Cheers

[Neville Briggs]

It was the old man from Ironbark that struck Sydney Town

You're right Irene, it kind of doesn't flow because you have two stressed syllables side by side. ( struck & Syd ) But then again metre is not a mathematical formula and you could have it that way if you really wanted to emphasise the striking of Sydney.

[Irene]

Yep, I was aware of that Neville - I was using it as an example to show the difference between just having the correct number of syllables, and having the correct number of syllables with the proper stresses. That example had the correct number of syllables but not the stresses in the correct place. It was in reply to Alongtimegone's comment about concentrating on syllables only, and your example of having the correct number of stressed syllables, but not the correct number of syllables overall!! I obviously missed something out of my explanation to properly explain what I was talking about!

Hmmmm, I'm probably not making sense - I'm tired!! But I know what I mean!!
Suffice to say - yep I knew it was wrong - it was deliberate!!

Must go to bed before I waffle on anymore!!
Catchya
Irene

[Neville Briggs]

That's all right Irene. I think I know what you mean.

Thanks for sending the heat eastwards, It's killing us.

[Glenny Palmer]

Helloo there 'Wazza'...? That's a good yarn mate. What I've found, over the years, (quite a few in my case) is that many musicians who rely upon their lyric writing skills for nailing poetry metre, still come to grief with the technicalities required of good rhyming verse/ballads etc. Also, that some writers can easily make their own pieces 'flow' when they read/recite them, while others, with different inflections etc simply can not. The skill lies in employing consistent metre & syllable count. (which allows any other person to get your piece flowing.) Learning this is just a matter of practice & application, as there are such instructional tools offered on this site.

I have identified 13 places within your text that could be adapted to achieve what you said you are seeking; that should be adapted if you want to achieve a technically correct piece. And at no cost to your story line or rythm...in fact to its advantage. If that is of interest to you I can share same with you, & help you to nail that bugbear of the ballad writer...metre! If you choose to pursue this on the site, it becomes a helpful exercise for other poets struggling with the same issue. If you prefer not to then it can all be done via email...or not done at all. It's entirely your call. After all...it's entirely your work.
Good luck
Cheeers
Glenny Palmer

[alongtimegone]

Hi Glenny ... you’re absolutely right about the author being able to make his/her own work flow and I am aware of that trap. I exchanged a couple of emails with David Campbell and he pointed out that this was the difference between a poem in strictly its written sense and the same poem as a performance piece where the performer places the stresses to make the lines flow. When I write a piece ‘for publication’ I always get another to read it out aloud to me checking to see whether it reads well despite the readers inflections.
Anyway long story short I know I’m not always getting it consistently right so I would appreciate any help you have to offer and thank you.
On site is fine, I’m reasonably thick of skin … although 13 !!! sounds like a lot to fix.

Cheers