Are you a silly old bugger

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Neville Briggs
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Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Neville Briggs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:00 pm

I see that our friend Marty Boyce has posted a poem that uses " buggered " as the main thought.

The OED tells us that originally bugger came from the Latin word Bulgarus meaning Bulgarian. It became a word of contempt because Bulgarians were considered a particularly heinous example of heretics. The word passed into French to become bougre and thence into English as bugger, meaning heretic.
Apparently heretics were suspected of all sorts of nasty habits. including unlawful sexual practices, so the word bugger ( or buggery ) came to mean the practice of anal intercourse. It had ( may still have ) that meaning in the NSW criminal law.

I realise that the word bugger now carries the connotation of contempt or annoyance or frustration.
You mob can write what you like, but I would rather not use it in my poems. ;) :)
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Heather

Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Heather » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:15 pm

I must admit to having had reservations when I first saw it Neville but I guess it's one of those words where the meaning has changed and it is now in common usage. Most people wouldn't even know of it's original meaning now. I suppose it has replaced words like "damn" or "blast". I think the dictionary has both meanings. That said, although I might use the word now and again (tsk, tsk), it is probably not something I would put in a poem either.

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Bob Pacey
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Bob Pacey » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:25 pm

I think you are being a little precious Nev , I think annoyance or anger is the most common usage and yes I think a lot of people do know the original meaning but it has evolved over time.

Such phrases as Bugger off or I'll be Buggered are pretty common uses.

once again it depends on the poem and the message you want to convey.

Bob
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Terry
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Terry » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:14 am

Hi Neville

Perhaps this is what's meant by pushing the boundaries.

I guess it's a fairly commonly used word in everyday Aussie language.

It certainly doesn't worry me, but like you I probably wouldn't use it myself.

Terry

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Maureen K Clifford
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Maureen K Clifford » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:52 am

Doesn't worry me at all and if it suited the conversation taking place in a poetic piece I would use it - we write Australian poetry and buggered and bloody are two Australian adjectives that have been and still are in common usage and used with a 'gentleness' as it were unlike the 'F' word which one hears all the time but which to my ears is always used harshly and crudely. No way would I use that one in a poem.
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Neville Briggs
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Neville Briggs » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:34 am

Just in case anybody misreads what I put, I am in no way criticizing or censuring any other person's choices of words. It's just that because I am aware of the history I would feel awkward using that word, even though I did say Bob that I know how the common usage has changed. Am I being precious ? probably so :)

Although if it was part of a quote or direct speech, maybe , just maybe there could be a place in my writing. I'd have to think about that.

It's an ugly word anyway, jars on the ear somewhat. :) I think I should be really sure that it is needed, before I use an ugly word in my poetry.
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Heather

Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Heather » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:17 am

I knew where you were coming from Neville and I don't think anyone could mistake you for criticising anyone's writing. You just know too much! I think that word and others can be overused - I cringe when I read certain over used words and phrases in bush poetry. I think that any word, well placed can have a great impact. I remember watching the movie Shirley Valentine and at one point the F word was used and it's placement was extremely funny - it was very clever. On the other hand I recall going to see a comedic show one night and the first "comedian" thought that using the "f" word every second word was funny - it wasn't funny, it was incredibly tedious and boring and not at all clever.

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Mal McLean
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Mal McLean » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:49 pm

Better not buy a Toyota, Nev! :o

All the best

Mal :D
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Neville Briggs
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Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Neville Briggs » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:59 pm

Have no use for one anyway Mal :)


Might be something to do with the letter "u" Heather , is that the ugly sound in English, gut, cut, crush, crumb, dumb, dunce, bull, brute, gunk, muck, sucker, thud, thump, strumpet, muddy, puddle,
bunkum, bum, bumble, clunk, all words that go bump in the sentence, including the word bump, and the word ugly. :)

Maybe Maureen can set us a homework to do an ugly poem ? :lol:
Neville
" Prose is description, poetry is presence " Les Murray.

Heather

Re: Are you a silly old bugger

Post by Heather » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:14 pm

Or is it the consonant that follows the vowel that is the harsh sound Neville>

"G" is another harsh sound - not at all poetic.

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