Homeless, Stateless - Refugee

[Bob Pacey]

I thought 4.25 in the afternoon he can not be drunk,


But then I don't know might be the water down there.


Bob

[warooa]

4.25pm - there's plenty of daylight drinking hours under belt by then
Wolf Blass Yellow Peril, or maybe a few reds under the bed?
Hey look, this emoticon has funny slanty eyes be afraid . . . be very afraid.

[Gary Harding]

Well there ya go guys ... hahaha thanks

It (immigration) as a subject, as compared to a poem on it, is NOT a thread or topic that I would have ever started or expected to see here on a Bush Poetry site. Amazing. Good fun. very tolerant and broad-minded mods.

I noticed that others, including an immediate past president, freely expressed their views on the subject without Moderation or Suppression. So I naturally took that as a clear signal to equally add my views on the subject too... go for it

Not Bush Poetry.... but a discussion about the controversial subject of current immigration.!!!??? hmmm.

I think there should be a distinct line between discussing the rhyme, meter, flow and poetic attributes of a piece, rather than whether you agree or don't with its sentiments. One is Bush Poetry appreciation, the other is politics. I broke that rule because others did first, that's my excuse

I have no problem with poems on sensitive or political subjects. I mark (and admire) poetic work on its technical construction... rhyme, meter, sense, flow, ability to capture and hold the reader's interest..... and never on whether I agree with the sentiments. I support the freedom to write on any (decent) subject. Don't we write our best on subjects upon which we have the most emotionally-charged views... "bush" or not! The words really flow then...

As can be seen I have VERY VERY strong views on immigration, and have no problem expressing them in strident terms. No law against that.. yet! (well that is not strictly true...) plus it is HOW I write.... with strong impact. All of us are surely different in that way, and that difference needs to be respected.

I have no problem with being labelled... personal attacks instead of argument. Hilarious. It just means there is no reasoned or logical argument to counter what I say. Lovely. Thank you.

Holding people to crowd-ridicule through shallow mockery in verse is extremely poor form for any real poet, especially a respected poet.

Whatever small talent I may have to write poetry, I would never abuse that god-given gift by using it as a tool to personally mock someone. Schoolyard ridicule.

That is a serious travesty, and an abuse of a bestowed gift. Setting aside the rights and wrongs of it, I would be so terrified of waking up to find that precious ability gone as punishment. Care, and respect for one's own talents. To be used nobly.. not ignobly. Never to be mis-used, or the gift will be summarily taken away by Whoever gave it. Beware. And I am NOT religious.. my religion is Bush Poetry!! haha

Isn't it far better to take the time to say "I have a different take on this..." or "I disagree because..."

There is a rush to label people... oh he must be high on drugs or drunk to have that opinion... he must be narra-minded. He must be a RAYSHIST to have those views.... done and dusted... labelled.. explained. No thinking necessary. Lazy. Never mind whether there is TRUTH in it. He is "an enemy of the people" A label. Dangerous stuff.

Discussion, argument, should be ideally based on facts... or ok, even just knee-jerk opinion... why not. Published Opinion is just that... to be respected, as should be a person's way of expressing himself like I do ... but never so inviolate that nobody can ever take robust issue...(without getting personal or course). If one is afraid of critique, then don't post.

What I hate is being factually wrong. being caught out in a poorly researched claim. My spelling errors slip through and that is a minor embarrassment.... but facts I check ten times now. Plus I query and quote the sources too.. much safer.

anyway ... lots of food for thought, and as Maureen indicated recently... time for good robust discussion on such things that are relevent to our trade. How to disagree nicely.. is number one. I agree.

ALL GOOD FUN! thanks guys.... love our discussions!

[manfredvijars]

Goodonya Gary. This Forum has a number of Moderators but it is essentially 'self' moderated (we are supposed to be adults after all) and seems to have been working well.

Most topics, off-topic threads and opinions are accepted (or tolerated, but NEVER deleted) - and often thrown back, with robust debate being the aftermath. "Opinions" are somewhat of a two-edged sword. As past president, I have opinions and vulnerabilities as fragile as the next person, so I too cop some shit as well as bouquets from time to time - just like the next person.

The debate about what it is that defines "Bush Poetry" is an ongoing one, and doubtless will continue well after we're gone. Even Lawson wrote what would be described as "contemporary" rhyming verse (they didn't have 'bush' poetry as a genre in his day)

So what you have here Gary, are a bunch of Poets, mostly rhyming, who dabble in most things poetic, and push the boundaries of our craft. (with a fair amount of bullshit thrown into the banter)

We love what we do, and you are welcome here ...

[David Campbell]

Here’s a little perspective on the issue.

Australia’s total migration intake since the end of World War 2 has been almost 8 million people. That’s over a period of almost 70 years. Since 1960 it’s been at the rate of about 1 million every decade. The greatest number to arrive in any one year was 185,000 in 1969-70.

Today, about a quarter of our population was born outside Australia. Since the middle of 2009 most have come from…New Zealand. Between July 2010 and June 2011, 127,460 new settlers arrived in Australia from more than 200 countries. 20.2% came from New Zealand and 11.5% came from China.

According to the 2011 census, about 15.5 % of Melbourne’s population had Asian ancestry. In Sydney it was 19%.

In 2011, when 4565 “boat people” came to Australia, 1.7 million refugees arrived in Pakistan and 886,500 went to Iran (from Afghanistan). Italy received over 61,000 by sea from North Africa, Greece and Turkey. Globally, the vast majority of refugees remain in their geographical region. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees says Australia receives about 3% of the asylum claims made in industrialised countries. By contrast, poorer developing nations host about 80% of the world’s refugees.

As Manfred pointed out, it is not illegal to arrive by boat in Australia as a refugee. Desperate, dangerous and unwise, perhaps, but not illegal. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) allows refugees to enter a country, by whatever means, to seek asylum. In 2008 more than 96% of applicants for refugee status came by plane.

Here is what Bill Hayden actually said:

"We are an anomaly - a white race with Asians between us and the rest of the world … We tend, because of historical, cultural and ethnic reasons, to look over our neighbours towards Europe. I believe that if you look at things in the span of history, and not in one man's lifetime, we will become not just a multicultural society - which seems to me to be a soft sort of terminology anyway - we will become a Eurasian society and we will be all the better for it. … There is absolutely no reason why Australia should not be that sort of mixed society. We should welcome the process of becoming a Eurasian - type society. It all comes back to the old brother-hood of man stuff. It's regarded as pretty soppy these days, but I still happen to believe it."

And finally, the use of capital letters does not increase the veracity of a statement.

David

[Gary Harding]

Thanks heaps Manfred... sincerely...

I admit I am more used to strict forums where you REALLY have to watch your P's and Q's. Off-topic is an automatic moderation, as is "flaming and baiting", personal attacks, and profanity of course. Politics is something I try and steer clear of because it is so divisive. Honestly I am here for Bush Poetry, not politics.

But gee I enjoyed expressing myself about current Immigration!!! Loved it!!! cut loose on it... and appreciated the latitude too.

It was real self-indulgence! Selfish too, but I have never claimed to be unselfish!!

It is amazing how writing can help you get things off your chest! I feel so much better now! Other than making me feel good, it probably did not achieve anything in particular... but fun??? you bet!

I think "poetry" can also be a way to unburden one's self to one's self.

In times of personal grief, I know people who have written "a poem" about it.... and it helped them so much! Expression. Like a load was lifted. An outpouring.

Now that "poem" may not have rhymed or had meter, maybe in fact it was "free verse".. I dunno... but it certainly helped them. In the end it was self-expression.. great stuff.

Looking back I suppose I have racked up a few dislikes expressed strongly.... "vulgarity in verse, the FAW clique, those who insult Lawson, free verse, and finally using poetic talent to ridicule people which is certainly nothing I would ever be proud of..." but then we all have different tastes and attitudes.

Now I need to think of some Positives .. some LIKES!!!

.. well I like the Poets here when they write at their BEST.!... real Talent! fantastic.

HEATHER.. Manfred, Bob, Bill, Maureen, Marty,... pretty much ALL folk here really.!!

... and from such talent one can learn! I sure do.

[Heather]

I'd just like to point out that poets and cartoonists have been ridiculing and lampooning people and making social comment for hundreds of years. Can anyone think of some examples? Neville? Where are you when we need you Neville? I'm sure Lawson did but haven't got time right now to be trawling though my books.

HEATHER

[william williams]

Well you knows what, I don't think that I is a mongrel, but I suppose you bloody think I am. Cause I don't talk or rite like youse city people with youse high bloody learnin an ya 9 till 5 jobs. See I starts as dah sun gits up, an works till it flammin goes down, wiff da sweat in me eyes all da time, cause I ain't a bludger an I don't swing the leg an bludge like youse city sheilas think we does. Out here we treats our sheilas good an we don't swear! that is if the orse don't stand on me foot like he did last time bloody mongrel he was. Now Heather I aint much at poetre an me spelln well? But I rites a lot about all sorts uf things, but what I'm tryn to say good on yah.

and Manfred I admire what your father has done you see my step daughter is involved with immigration and what she tells me there are some boat people who are good and some not so good and are bludgers for want of a nicer sounding word. one day if we are lucky we may separate the wheat from the dross.

[Maureen K Clifford]

and in the meantime perhaps we shoud treat them all as 'fair dinkum' until they prove otherwise- after all isn't that supposed to be the Aussie way? - A fair shake for all

[william williams]

Well Maureen an Aussie can usually judge a person's caricature and if it is any good he will let them have a go but there are a number that are not what they appear and let us hope that they can weed them out before it is to late.

bill the old battler